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monte · 13-02-2012, 15:58

you can pick up an 06 lagoon 380 locally for around AU$200
It would be big enough for your purpose and ongoing costs less than a bigger cat

k9spud · 14-02-2012, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by multihullsailor6

If you have your eyes currently set on a FP Belize see if you can locate a FP Belize owner's version - the starboard hull is basically one big airy room, the space is absolutely stunning!

There is one here in Cartagena, Spain and the owner paid €165,000 incl. VAT after some negotiations.

hi roger that sounds good do you have any more inpho as in age,condition,equipement list and the price before negotations.
as it sounds just what i am looking for.
pete

Oliver L. · 14-02-2012, 03:13

A word of caution regarding the escape hatches: Don't forget what they are made for...

The higher you put them up, the lower they will be when you need them. Also, all cats have lifelines slung along the underside of the bridgedeck, and you are supposed to hook on to that before exiting. The idea of exiting onto an already significantly submersed trampoline and then somehow making your way along a slippery hull to the relative safety of the bridgedeck is not at all appealing. Remember - you won't know until it's too late which way the wind and waves will be going...

A well built hatch and an ironclad routine regarding "getting ready for departure" seem to work quite well for me.

Oliver

**Palarran** · 14-02-2012, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver L.

A word of caution regarding the escape hatches: Don't forget what they are made for...

The higher you put them up, the lower they will be when you need them. Also, all cats have lifelines slung along the underside of the bridgedeck, and you are supposed to hook on to that before exiting. The idea of exiting onto an already significantly submersed trampoline and then somehow making your way along a slippery hull to the relative safety of the bridgedeck is not at all appealing. Remember - you won't know until it's too late which way the wind and waves will be going...

A well built hatch and an ironclad routine regarding "getting ready for departure" seem to work quite well for me.

Oliver

Not all cat's have lifelines on the undersides. In fact, I haven't actually seen one that does. That's not to say that when someone gets ready for a bluewater delivery they don't set ones, but I don't think most cat sailors automatically have them at all times.

Also, in general escape hatches are mis-identified. They are more for in-scape access in case of capsize instead of escape afterwards. That is why they have bars that fall off automatically when inverted and handles to open from the outside. They can be used either way.

"Getting ready for departure" really should entail all hands outside on deck actively working to prevent a capsize rather then hanging out below discussing your departure routine.

In any case, the OP is just looking for a cruising cat recommendations which shouldn't be based on the location of escape hatches which 99.99% of the time are never used.

blueskyzjonesy · 15-02-2012, 20:15

trying out my new avatar, and if it works don't get this for a cruising vessel!

blueskyzjonesy · 15-02-2012, 20:18

darn! oh well, for your viewing enjoyment:

Dragonfly Finishes Leg 3 - YouTube

!

fast Cat being escorted to the finish line, Van Isle 360, 2011

**Camp Director G** · 27-02-2012, 13:06

K9spud, what's the latest thinking on your cat choice?

k9spud · 27-02-2012, 14:40

hi director g
still thinking about a belize 43 owners version bit hard to find a reasonalably priced one in oz.
looking at inporting one but a bit of a hassle .
seems hard to find another type with a decent bridge deak clearance.
spud

**Camp Director G** · 29-02-2012, 09:01

I hear ya. I like the Leopard 39 and 40. Do you have a comparison of all the bridge deck clearances? I agree that the clearances are vital to avoid slamming, but I think they have all come way up since cats started to be common. I wonder if they are all sufficient and it's just splitting hairs. And it also depends on how much upwind sailing you do. Most people don't sail into the wind all that much, unless they do out and backs from a home port all the time. I am also after owners versions. What made you decide on the Belize 43?

Lagoon4us · 29-02-2012, 12:09

I agree about clearances something to take into consideration about Leopards is they deliver them on their own bottoms from SA so i reckon that's a pretty fair indicator of ability. If there were slamming issues i don't think they would get a second delivery.

We were going to go for a Leopard but the Lagoon's underbody shape seemed to be a better one as it is shaped/not flat, strong and tends to disperse any wave giving lift.

Cheers Frank.

**Camp Director G** · 02-03-2012, 15:01

After looking and looking, I still can't get used to the looks of a Lagoon. They're like old Volvos... boxy but good. lol. I know that the the vertical windows make sense, but FP's are so much more sleek with smooth lines all around. Much prettier. The Leopards are somewhere in between. One of the main things I liked about the leopard 39 was the lower placed winches in the helm area. My fiance is only 5 feet tall, so the higher winches were tough for her on the Orana 44 we sailed on in the BVI's. I found the positioning a little difficult too and I'm 5 ft 11. Right now, I'm considering the L40 Owners version out of charter. Any comments?.

Lagoon4us · 02-03-2012, 15:51

Had similar thoughts about the vertical windows then i walked into the saloon of a 440 and WOW the feeling of space is extreme, the cooler properties were also a consideration.
Honestly i compared the cabin shape to a WW1 gun emplacement, but "Form follows function" and now i'm sold on the concept...

downunder · 02-03-2012, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Had similar thoughts about the vertical windows then i walked into the saloon of a 440 and WOW the feeling of space is extreme, the cooler properties were also a consideration.
Honestly i compared the cabin shape to a WW1 gun emplacement, but "Form follows function" and now i'm sold on the concept...

Was speaking to Bob Oram some time back about a 44C where the owner wanted vertical windows designed. Bob said he spent a week on the boat delivering it to NSW and he was surprised the difference it made in saloon temperature and the reduction in sun into saloon and less need to cover insturements from sun. Can't remember the difference in actual temps it made but he indicated it was substancal.

Quite a few newer vessel designs have moved to vertical saloon front windows. Outremer and Freeflow just two but are several others.

Factor · 02-03-2012, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

I agree about clearances something to take into consideration about Leopards is they deliver them on their own bottoms from SA so i reckon that's a pretty fair indicator of ability. If there were slamming issues i don't think they would get a second delivery.

Mate - I'll deliver anything you pay me too! If it floats in reasonable nick and its safe. Doesn't mean I might buy some/many of the boats I deliver, but you pay me, I will deliver any new production boat anywhere.

Lagoon4us · 02-03-2012, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor

Mate - I'll deliver anything you pay me too! If it floats in reasonable nick and its safe. Doesn't mean I might buy some/many of the boats I deliver, but you pay me, I will deliver any new production boat anywhere.

More the point is the factory (Leopard) don't mind their boats being delivered to the customer on their own bottoms hence they are not concerned about damage due to slamming from poor underdeck clearances.

Money will always find a crew....