Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-10-2007, 21:38   #46
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha Kai,
You are making progress. Did I ever tell you I did a few sails a 35 Piver here in Hawaii? I didn't look closely at what engine size you have but it didn't take much to push "Serenity." I think it was a two cylinder Yanmar.
JohnL
__________________

__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2007, 21:43   #47
Kai Nui
Guest

Posts: n/a
She has a new Yanmar 3YM30 (Thanks Never monday). There are a few videos on Google of a couple sailing a Piver in Hawaii. Looks like fun. Can't wait to get her in the water. Just hope the pilot house isn't too heavy. I might have to realocate some weight.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	012 (2).JPG
Views:	348
Size:	174.1 KB
ID:	1984  
__________________

__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2007, 21:51   #48
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha Kai,
That is a good sized engine for your boat and should provide all the power you'll ever need. Lots of deck space, room and stability. I remember a bit of a hard time going forward of the forward crossarm while down below but I'm certain you can get used to it.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2007, 21:51   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 24
Images: 1
Mike - Some radio control model trimaran builders have solved the bow burying problem by putting a wing on the bottom of the rudder, curved surface facing down. When the bow starts to bury, this wing provides a downforce that holds the stern down. Of course, the rudder assembly and installation has to be able to handle the stresses.

Cal
__________________
Calculator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2007, 21:56   #50
Kai Nui
Guest

Posts: n/a
The rudder on my boat is inboard, but I would still be reluctant to add that sort of stress to the design. I have good bouyancy in the bows with the mods to this boat, so not too worried, and I have allot of weight midship with all of my batteries and water tanks.
John, it is a bit of an effort for me to get forward, but you can see in the photo, I raised the cabin top in the head, so there is 6'4" head room. Once I get forward, I have no problem moving around.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2007, 23:53   #51
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha Kai,
Looks like a good sensible modification are you going to install a hatch or port up there for light and ventilation?
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2007, 13:58   #52
Registered User
 
CaptPaul's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sonoma, cA
Boat: 1971 CAL 25
Posts: 1
Hello All,

Just joined the forum. Great stuff.

I have followed this thread with great interest and just a couple of notes regarding Art Piver and Norm Cross. I worked for Art as a teenager after school in Mill Valley building his prototype boats from 16' to 45'. Art was quite a character and was very opinionated from his aeronautical and engineering background on his designs. He did NOT believe in motors and he could sail anything into the marina without one. That was my first sailing lesson! He put in motor wells for people that didn't know how to sail. We build the hulls in his side yard up on a hill in Mill Valley and then had them taken down the hill by professional movers (what a sight and blocked traffic for hours) to where we assembled them together in Sausalito. You are correct that not much of the prototypes interiors were completed. If they were ready to float with rigging then it was time to test. And we took them out in some of the worst weather the north coast could throw at us. We purposely attempted to flip and pitchpole them (exciting ride) which is something to experience on a 45 ft boat. He wanted the hulls to act like a jet engine aerodynamically. pushing the boat from the compression between the hulls. We cut up one 45' design (one of his last) four times because he didn't like the look. He believed that the laminated plywood box beam construction was extremely strong and continually tested it. Never saw it fail in our testing. His intention was for the "floats" to carry lots of provisions and/or be a cabin in the larger designs. He and Norm were friends but disagreed on design. having sailed with both of them Norm did have some tweaks that made a lot of sense. I like Norm's designs from a aesthetic point of view much better than Arts'. but Art pioneered the modern Tri and is so noted in the Maritime Museum as the father of the modern multihull. Remember that these designs were from the 60's and were considered pretty advanced and radical then. We were "weird" for sailing them but then again we fit into the Sausalito houseboat crowd very well. Art was a blast to be around. I asked him one time why the boat business and he replied that Piver rhymed with Diver so it was meant to be.

My first boat was the original 16' "Frolic" that Art gave me when I was about 15. I lost the rudder one day in Richardson bay and had to anchor it out off of Tiburon. Art brought me a anchor and then drove off yelling "that's life in the boat business" laughing.. Long walk home !!.. I had no idea back then what a special time that really was with a very special man. I was to go on a trip with him after the race he was qualifying for when he was lost.

It was in 68 as I remember that he was lost. It was on a borrowed "Nimble" that was very poorly constructed. (Not by him) . But he could sail anything (at least in his mind). Of course I always wondered if he just didn't keep going and spent the rest of his life in warm water. He sure talked about it alot.. He also respected Jim Brown but didn't like him at all. Didn't like his designs. I never had the chance to sailon one of Jim's designs.

As for now. I am trying a keel boat. A CAL 25 that I am puttering with. Miss the multihull though even it it does not point as high.


Capt Paul
__________________
CaptPaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2007, 14:44   #53
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha Capt Paul,
In addition to sailing on the Piver I mentioned earlier, I sailed on a Cross 38 from Kauai to Oahu. Upwind sail but fun anyway. I liked the sheet cleat design that automatically tripped when the forces got a bit too high. Kept it on an even keel. I thought they looked better too.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2007, 00:12   #54
Kai Nui
Guest

Posts: n/a
Capt Paul. Thanks for the input. I have sailed for years without engines, but I am convinced that cruising a tri without one is not for me. I have docked a Victress in moderate winds with an engine. That convinced me. I have a few stories from your area. My wife refuses to return to San Pablo Bay after our last sail there. Wet hardly describes it
I am getting close, but still have a few things to do, including plumbing the engine, wiring and interior. Since my slip is about 200 mile south of where I am launching, I need the boat to be completely seaworthy when she splashes.
I have designed a few rigging tweaks that should make the boat easy to short hand. Hope to test them soon. .
I am putting together product reviews on all of the vendors that I used for this project, and should be able to post them to the forum in the next few months. There are a few that needed some hand holding, but overall, the vendors I have used to build this boat have been great.
All the parts are in hand now. Just need to find that second Saturday in the week to get it all together.
I would also mention to those who do not like sanding, don't buy a trimaran! The surface area on this thing never seems to end.
John, I thought about a hatch over the head, but opted for strength, and no leaks. I did install two opening ports on the sides for light and ventilation. This boat is set up to circulate air very well with very few openings on deck. I did this due to the fact that I seem to be cursed to forever have leaks. My wife looked up some sort of horoscope thing once that said if a Pisces marries a Gemini, you will forever have leaks in your roof. It suggested buying buckets. This has proved true through 2 marriages to Geminis, so I am not expecting a dry winter any time in the near future, and I try hard not to tempt fate by putting more holes in my roof
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2007, 21:17   #55
Registered User
 
clausont's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pacific NorthWest
Boat: Sold - Landlocked
Posts: 561
Images: 60
Hi Kai Nui

I have read every post in this thread as I am very interested in one of the larger tri's in the future. It has been very educational and has answered a lot of my questions and curiousity about trimarans. I am most interested in a tri because of the relative stability (less heel compared to a mono) and the relatively large deck space. As most here know, we have 5 kids and my wife is somewhat hesitant in the sailing department. I think that a somewhat more stable boat would help her feel more comfortable with it. The deck space would definitely be a plus for the kids - particularly at anchor or in port.
Does anyone here know anything about the 42' Brown Searunner that is at the Napa Valley Marina? Price is quite low is why I ask (you get what you pay for?)
Thanks
__________________

clausont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2007, 02:08   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 372
Trimarans

I liked the response someone made to the question "What do you think about children afloat?"

"A hell of a lot better than having them aboard!"

My tri is often infested with kids of all ages. The crew has to watch them all the time and make sure all are wearing their lifejackets whenever the boat is under way--in fact I like them to be put on properly before they come aboard.

There are two designers who I feel make great trimarans, and who seem to get little mention. The Roger Simpson Liahona was one of the best cruising trimarans around.

If you have small children, I think the later Horstman Tristars would be my choice. It is possible to move from the amas to the main hull under deck--which gives a great deal more secure space for kids than a Cross or a Piver.

Another good designer was Lock Crowther--the Buccaneer design is quite fast and they can be quite large.

I would go with the Horstman if I had small kids aboard. Open deck space and more security below. Probably the best cruising tri--always wanted one.

There is a big tri for sale in Brazil- listed on Yachtworld.com
__________________
Mike Banks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2007, 03:45   #57
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,577
Images: 240

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
I liked the response someone made to the question "What do you think about children afloat?"
"A hell of a lot better than having them aboard!"
My tri is often infested with kids of all ages...
Hmmmmmmm ...
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2007, 14:24   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 372
My vessel has a 30 hp Yanmar which shoves it along nicely--even when fully loaded which it usually is. It should be ideal on a Piver 35. The Yanmar is a fuel efficient engine with adequate power for my 40 feet plus--I have encountered some strong tidal flows and the engine has been essential.
__________________
Mike Banks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2007, 13:34   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: West coast of Florida
Posts: 127
Images: 8
Kai Nui,

We just had my Dad's 80th birthday party and came across this old slide from the mid-70's. It is our Texas Tri/Piver 30. Just kind of a fun old tri picture.....
__________________
“…whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people’s hats off them, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can.” - Melville
Curtis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2007, 14:33   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 372
Pivors etc

Piver was lost in one of his own designs but not one he built it seems. I think it was about twenty-five feet long--I am not sure whether or not it was a Lodestar, but apparently it was not well built. Lodestars are usually overbuilt compared to some tris. No identifiable wreckage was ever found. Apparently he needed to do some sort of voyage to qualify for a race entry--.

Back to water storage in the amas.

My boat has flexible tanks in the amas--and I am thinking of replacing them or augmenting them with wooden racks faced with nylon carpet which will house twenty litre plastic containers. These can be obtained free of charge from car wash operators--they are very strong square detergent bottles. These are not so heavy when full that they can not be filled ashore and carried in a dinghy. In many places water is only obtainable this way. In the remoter cruising areas there are no hose-filling facilities. Rainwater catchers and freshwater creeks are all there is, unless one has a watermaker.

The advantage of the containers is that they can be filled individually from a rain catcher and if one is holed or is somehow contaminated all of the water is not affected. If one is lifted out and placed on the coach house roof, a siphon to the galley with a wine-cask valve or plastic tap works quite well as a jury water supply if the main pump fails. Containers can also be re-positioned as moveable ballast--and demountable racks can be fitted in other parts of the vessel if one contemplates a long cruise where there are no water supplies and rain is not expected. Loadstars can carry big loads. They do not perform well when heavily loaded--but they can certainly be loaded. Just make sure the loads are spread and there are no point loads.

Another problem I have is diesel storage--and to that end I have extra tankage as well as extra containers of diesel oil which I also put in the amas. These containers are black or yellow and of a different shape to the water--so no confusion possible. There is an additional diesel tank in the hull which has not been used since I obtained the vessel because I am uncertain about it. It will be removed, flushed and pressure tested, then replaced. In the main hull to either side of it are two additional stainless steel water tanks which are in use. One or both of these could be converted to diesel storage if I can build or acquire a watermaker. One can never have too much diesel oil aboard if one ventures into remote areas.

Fuel filling spots are very few and far between--and many of them that do exist are miles up rivers which necessitate the use of the engine just to get there.
__________________

__________________
Mike Banks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lodestar, piver

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.