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Old 18-01-2006, 06:18   #16
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Kai Nui,

Sounds like you've thought-out everything...the biggest thing I remember learning from our years with the Texas Tri was just how weight sensitive the boat was. When we first purchased it, it was fitted out for a circumnavigation...had an entire spare set of working sails (was ketch rigged), full storm sails, spares for every piece of standing and running rigging, many engine spares, and huge tanks (seems like 200 gallons of water). The previous owners had completely filled the amas with spares! We were VERY dissapointed with the sailing characteristics of the boat and put it on a severe diet.

After the diet, the change was impressive...still no demon, but acceptable for family cruising. We had a blast on the boat...I remember I took a large portion of my high school senior class out for the weekend....nothing like a trimaran for finding room for 15-20 teenagers.

Good luck with your project...would love to see pics!

Curtis
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Old 18-01-2006, 19:36   #17
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THanks Curtis!
We have a close friend with a Piver 47, and he is set up for maximum comfort living aboard, but his performance is severely lacking. His was the first multihull we sailed on. I must admit, we had a fun day at 5-6 kts cruising around the Monterey bay level, but I was expecting more. When I discussed this with him prior to purchasing our boat, and as i learned more about the Piver design, it was clear why his boat performed so poorly. I am attempting to address all of those issues.
When our boat was built, she was a ketch rig. The builder, a german engineer, consulted with Brown regarding performance modifications. Hence the 40' spec ammas. The previous owner, removed the aft cabin, and redesigned the rig into a sloop. After speaking with a number of people who have sailed on this boat before she was hauled and the refit started, I have heard some incredible stories of performance. This from people who had no agenda, so I am inclined to believe them. Among other things, the boat is reported to have reached 20kts with 6 people on board. I have high hopes for it's performance with the way I am fitting out, but only time will tell.
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Old 11-02-2006, 00:59   #18
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Kai Nui
I just stumbled back to this board after losing track of it for the last year or so. With the modifications done to your Lodestar I think it will perform much better than the original design but I think 20 knts is expecting too much. With my Brown Searunner 40 we usually find 7-10 knts for casual sailing and if we want to put a little effort into it we can crank it up to 10-15knts with a good breeze. Surfing on big swells these boats may hit 20 knts but that is not really sustained sailing speeds.
These old boats don't have the beam, sail area, ama displacement, or lightweight construction to sustain speeds in the high teens.
I think it a good idea to keep the water tankage out of the amas. Enough stuff will find it's way in there anyhow. I use mine to store things like oars, sun awning, sailing rig for the dinghy, empty jugs and buckets, the deflated sportboat, and maybe a sail or two. Probably no more than 150 lbs per side. Your underwings will appreciate it when you have drive her close hauled in large waves or a steep chop.
What kind of keel do you have? Norm Cross designed keel modifications for many Piver designs that did away with the "dolphin striker" ama fins that many were built with originally.
As far as water and fuel tanks go I have built my own from 3/8 ply, epoxy, and fiberglass cloth. These have worked out very well and you can maximize capacity by fitting them to the bilge space.
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Old 02-03-2006, 18:20   #19
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Steve, You are correct about the sustained speed. I will be VERY happy to see 8-10 for extended periods. The 20 was a short sprint in decent wind, and was confirmed by a friend of mine who was on the boat at the time. He said it was scary as hell. I recently priced custom tanks, and $2000 later, I am really considering fiberglass for water and holding. Even if I do glass with bladder inserts it will be cheaper than having fitted tanks made.
As promised, I have added some photos to the gallery. I am no where near as far as I would like because every time I start getting things done, it starts raining again Only two patches left on the deck, and some fairing, and the deck will be ready to sand and paint. The hull is about half painted with the epoxy primer/sealer, and if I can get a few dry days over 60 degrees, I will get the rest of it done. New portlights in the head, and I raised the coach roof over the head. I still need to glass the addition. The keel is the Cross design. No weight, but it knocks down the leeway allot from what I have been told. The transducer for the depth sounder is built into the keel. This may be a problem If I can not get this transducer to work with a newer depth sounder. Anyone know if the Epsco unit will adapt?
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Old 02-03-2006, 20:56   #20
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Things are looking better. Amazing what a coat of paint can do. I am limited to interior work till it warms up here in Minnesota. The galley area is almost done as are the head, and dressing room . The berth area is being currantly worked on. Nav station is roughed in and the dinette needs to be ripped out and rebuilt.
It is a good idea to put a couple of layers of glass tape on all corners, seams, and joints. The single sheathing layer will eventually crack under the very slight expansion and contraction movement of the joint.
These boats have very good directional stability at high speed with no tendancy to broach when running downwind. We try to get her near or at the speed of the waves for a really comfy downwind ride. With my boats center cockpit the sensation of speed is somewhat muted but if I go back to the stern it is quite an eye opener to watch the boat tear thru the water at 12-15 knots.
Back to the ama storage. The concern about weight out there is not really structural in a properly built boat. You could load the amas up and they will not tear off the boat but it will adversly affect the handling and motion.
Some of Hedley Nicol's designs had a flimsy connective structure and there a a few stories about them coming apart.
I will try and get some interior pics soon and maybe one of the ply/epoxy water tank.
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Old 02-03-2006, 22:18   #21
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Great photos Kai!!

I really love what you have done with the tri, since I seen it last in person!!!
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Old 02-03-2006, 22:23   #22
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Steve, do you haul out in the winter, or how does the tri handle the ice?
I have heard about the Nichols designs. Fortunately, the Piver is overbuilt in that respect. On the edges of the coach roof, I have no worries about the patched areas. I am using 44oz glass. As for what is not being replaced this time, I fugure it will probably all go at once, and I will do all the edges at once next time around. I can not wait to see your interior shots. I keep changing my mind about the interior layout. I have been looking for ideas.
I have no worries structurally about loading the ammas, but I am after a fast cruiser, so anything that deters from the speed capabilities will be ruled out. To a point of course, as we do want comfort. Nice to know about running down wind. I can not wait to get her on the water.
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Old 03-03-2006, 23:15   #23
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We don't stay in the water in the winter. There are a few steel hulled houseboats that do with the use of bubblers. The ice can get 1-2 feet thick. My boating in the winter consists of driving the car out on the ice and drilling holes in it to fish.
Check out this website http://www.svrikki.net It details the construction and cruise of a Marples design Constant Camber 40 trimaran. This guy was a true craftsman and the quality of the construction is truely excellent. The interior layout is the same as the Searunner 40 but it is a more modern deck and hull design using lighter weight construction and rounded hull forms.
Do you have the building plans and specs for your boat. Searunner 34 has a payload of 2000lbs and the 37 at 2600lbs. I would suspect your boat may be in that range. The 40 will carry 3600lbs.
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Old 03-03-2006, 23:47   #24
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Great link Steve. Thanks.
I know about the ice there. I had family (and still do) up in the twin cities area. I spent a few winters cross country skiing on Coon Lake outside Minneapolis. My cousins live up there, and one of them works a month here and there to support his fishing habit He spends all winter in an ice shack.
I am hoping to keep the gear and stores down to about 2000#, but it all depends on what we find comfortable on that boat.
I do have the drawings and the notebook for my boat, but have not read through all of it.
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Old 13-03-2006, 21:28   #25
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Piver's Disappearance

The January/February 2000 issue of Multihulls Magazine says "Piver didn't just talk about trimarans, he used them. He sailed his designs extensively - and accumulated over 35,000 sea miles before vanishing off the California coastline in March of 1968 while trying to qualify for the 1968 OSTAR."

Amateur Yacht Research Society Publication No. 65 says "...Arthur Piver - no trace of Arthur since he left Sausalito on 17th March [1968] in his 36 foot DART trimaran for San Diego on his 500 mile quaifying trip for the SHTAR 1968."

I'll try to enclose a drawing of his DART trimaran. Piver had a "Hot-rod version" and a "Cruiser" version. It had an elliptical main hull cross-section and curved "Vee" ama cross sections.

Cal Markwood
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Old 13-03-2006, 21:40   #26
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Hey Cal.

You can post those drawings in the "photos section" of this forum.

I would love to see those drawings!!
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Old 13-03-2006, 22:17   #27
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Jim Brown writes in his book The Case for the Cruising Trimaran that the Dart was already in England having been sailed across in a 1967 race. Piver lacked the qualification that you had to have a singlehanded passage of 500 miles. Art always raced with a crew before. At that time the qualification leg could be sailed in another boat so he borrowed a poorly built 25ft Nugget. No wreckage was ever found which is somewhat unusal. Was he run down by a freighter and the boat ripped apart?
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Old 13-03-2006, 22:32   #28
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Cal, I couldn't agree more. Piver was the perfect makeup for a designer. He would sail them, and find the problems himself. I appreciate that logic. I also would like to see those drawings.
Steve, your info is correct as always. Lot's of traffic in that area. That is my back yard, and the ship traffic now is intense. Even in 68 it was probably a bit scary. The ideal track to take down the coast, just happens to fall right into the main shipping channel.
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Old 16-03-2006, 21:38   #29
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Piver Drawing

A sail plan for the Piver boat is in the gallery. Cal
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Old 16-03-2006, 21:46   #30
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Cool, thanks Cal.
Steve, great pics of your tri as well. The snow gives it an interesting shape
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