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Old 27-08-2012, 19:38   #16
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

Bazcatana here.

I have asked for the Details of this Cat. This is where I start to find out about how this Cat sails, when I get that information I will tell you all if it is just another Bucket or something worth sailing.

The comfort bit, well seats are seats and Heads, Berths, Cooking and Showering are what they are.

Hopefully I will report my findings.

Barry Parkinson
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Old 27-08-2012, 23:24   #17
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

Young Baz, what do you want to know, I have sailed it.
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Old 28-08-2012, 05:23   #18
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

Hi FACTOR,

I would like to know the following:-

1) Length 42'
2) Beam ??
3) Sail area Main & Genoa??
4) Weight Ex payload, added later??
5) Dagger-Boards of Skegs???
6) Bridge-Deck clearance???
7) Hull construction???
8) Width of hull @ waterline amidships
9) Mast height off deck & Water
10) Bow free-board and shape
11) Sail Plan

That's all for now

Barry Parkinson
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Old 28-08-2012, 05:54   #19
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

We may as well find out the price whilst we're at it Barry.

Would also be nice to see an example of this vessel ex-China versus photos of an existing vessel made in another country (Australia) by another company. Would be nice to know what the timeframe on a build would be too as at a guess they may not have produced any examples yet.
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Old 28-08-2012, 06:16   #20
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

Barry, I was meaning what do you want to know about how it sails? Metrics are useful, but nothing like getting some sail up and having a go. Ausaviator - the moulds that Micah and Lee have are, as I understand it, the Australian Montebello moulds and Lee has a strong record as a boat builder, so I would think that its likely to turn out okay. Having said that the montebellos that were fully factory built in Australia were pretty nicely done.

but here's the specs off Phils website:

Overall Length 41.25ft / 12.5m
Waterline Length 39.53ft / 11.98m
Beam 23.33ft / 7.07m
Draft – Fixed Keel 3.83ft / 1.16m
Draft – Centre Board Up 2.64ft / 0.8m
Displacement 17,000lbs / 7,750kgs
Underwing Clearance 2’6" / 0.80m
Diesel Sail Drives 2 x 39hp Yanmar
Fuel 130 gallons / 500 litres
Fresh Water 210 US gallons / 800 litres

Construction of the Aus built boats was foam and glass, I presume that the Balance will be the same. But thats a question for Mr Berman.
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Old 28-08-2012, 07:57   #21
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

Hi FACTOR,

Thanks for the info if it's all there.

You say there is nothing like sailing it to find out what the baots like.

Are you real.

There are 95 % of Catamarans on the market that are slow, don't point to windward, Hobby Horse, go slow, have minimal sail area. Condo or Caravan comes to mind but it has got a mast, that makes it a Yacht I guess.

Wake up please.

The time has come for Catamaran buyers to find out the truth about just another bucket called a Catamaran.

I have 200 Cats listed on my Computer and 95% are buckets.

Your days are numbered.

I launch in two weeks and all will be reviled to the buyers of Catamarans.

'What CATAMARAN NOT TO BUY AND WHY'

I forgot, why sail it if it can't sail. Maybe you want to Float instead, I'm sure you can manage that.

Regards

Barry Parkinson
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Old 28-08-2012, 08:02   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazcatana
Hi FACTOR,

Thanks for the info if it's all there.

You say there is nothing like sailing it to find out what the baots like.

Are you real.

There are 95 % of Catamarans on the market that are slow, don't point to windward, Hobby Horse, go slow, have minimal sail area. Condo or Caravan comes to mind but it has got a mast, that makes it a Yacht I guess.

Wake up please.

The time has come for Catamaran buyers to find out the truth about just another bucket called a Catamaran.

I have 200 Cats listed on my Computer and 95% are buckets.

Your days are numbered.

I launch in two weeks and all will be reviled to the buyers of Catamarans.

'What CATAMARAN NOT TO BUY AND WHY'

I forgot, why sail it if it can't sail. Maybe you want to Float instead, I'm sure you can manage that.

Regards

Barry Parkinson
Barry, something I learned when I was a young man. No matter how good you think you are there are many out there better.:-) hope this helps.
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Old 28-08-2012, 08:07   #23
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazcatana View Post
Hi FACTOR,

Thanks for the info if it's all there.

You say there is nothing like sailing it to find out what the baots like.

Are you real.

There are 95 % of Catamarans on the market that are slow, don't point to windward, Hobby Horse, go slow, have minimal sail area. Condo or Caravan comes to mind but it has got a mast, that makes it a Yacht I guess.

Wake up please.

The time has come for Catamaran buyers to find out the truth about just another bucket called a Catamaran.

I have 200 Cats listed on my Computer and 95% are buckets.

Your days are numbered.

I launch in two weeks and all will be reviled to the buyers of Catamarans.

'What CATAMARAN NOT TO BUY AND WHY'

I forgot, why sail it if it can't sail. Maybe you want to Float instead, I'm sure you can manage that.

Regards

Barry Parkinson
I guess you are saying that we all need to go out and buy a Catana.

As everything else is a bucket. ???? floats - can't sail. KNOW WHERE I CAN FIND A GOOD catana 381 ?

Back on the topic of the Montebello - they were resin infused foam sandwich.
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Old 28-08-2012, 08:22   #24
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazcatana View Post
...Are you real.
Yep
Quote:
Wake up please.
Why dont you wake up, are you saying that your "data" is more accurate than actual experience? You are as we say here , a sandwich short of a picnic.
Quote:
I forgot, why sail it if it can't sail. Maybe you want to Float instead, I'm sure you can manage that.
I'll ignore that uncalled for rudeness

By the way Barry The use of data to analyse respective performance is a valid concept, but its already been done, by experts - See Multihull Dynamics. It has years of data and analysis.
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Old 28-08-2012, 08:43   #25
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

That's right FACTOR,

The games up.

For too long the Catamaran buying public has been sold up the river but, it's over.

I intend to tell the truth to the Catamaran buying public, what about you???

Barry Parkinson - What Catamaran NOT TO BUY!!!!
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Old 28-08-2012, 08:56   #26
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

This Barry guy is really entertaining... I feel that he thinks he is doing something new, and game changing. Like factor said this type of thing has already been done by professionals...

You would have to be pretty foolish to think that some armchair sailor with a dated catana is an all out expert on catamaran design, and the catamaran market...

I may not agree all the time with Factor, but at least I know he has a lot of experience on sailing a wide variety of catamarans. I would value his opinion. When Factor offered to give Barry some real first hand knowledge of this boat Barry completely dismissed it... Armchair sailor???
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Old 28-08-2012, 08:59   #27
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

Baz, I was also wondering about the parrallel between your startup and MD. Whatcha got that they ain't got?
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Old 28-08-2012, 09:16   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazcatana
That's right FACTOR,

The games up.

For too long the Catamaran buying public has been sold up the river but, it's over.

I intend to tell the truth to the Catamaran buying public, what about you???

Barry Parkinson - What Catamaran NOT TO BUY!!!!
You don't understand Baz, not everyone has the same needs in boats as you. The truth has been told many times, where have you been?
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Old 28-08-2012, 09:43   #29
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

Quote:
Originally Posted by bazcatana View Post
Hi FACTOR,

Thanks for the info if it's all there.

You say there is nothing like sailing it to find out what the baots like.

Are you real.

There are 95 % of Catamarans on the market that are slow, don't point to windward, Hobby Horse, go slow, have minimal sail area. Condo or Caravan comes to mind but it has got a mast, that makes it a Yacht I guess.

Wake up please.

The time has come for Catamaran buyers to find out the truth about just another bucket called a Catamaran.

I have 200 Cats listed on my Computer and 95% are buckets.

Your days are numbered.

I launch in two weeks and all will be reviled to the buyers of Catamarans.

'What CATAMARAN NOT TO BUY AND WHY'

I forgot, why sail it if it can't sail. Maybe you want to Float instead, I'm sure you can manage that.

Regards

Barry Parkinson
--------------------------------------------------------
bazcatana,

95 % of sailors that own Catamarans are happy with them.
Don't believe everything you think.
Stop trying to sell us on your ideas of what you think is the best cat out there.
Your 5% is not going to fit everybodys needs or funds.

You will have to be a commercial member if you want to sell books or data, so stick to what the OP was looking for in this thread and contribute.
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Old 28-08-2012, 09:56   #30
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Re: Phil Berman Builds New Cat In China

As my dad used to say..."if we all like the same thing, Jane would be an awfully sore girl." Not everyone is willing to sacrifice the luxuries of their cat to go fast to windward. That's OK.
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