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Old 22-04-2008, 18:13   #31
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Originally Posted by David M View Post
Africancater??
who loves the Africancat more than wind
or
think about it is faster than wind
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Old 22-04-2008, 18:47   #32
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Are you saying that you hope that the Catana performance isn't a myth? If so, then I'm afraid that you might be in for a bit of a shock/let down. marketing and reality are not always the same.

Yes, the Catana myth is the high performance, for some reason, but these are well performing good quality cruising cats and not racers.

There are practically no standard production cats that will give you anything like 75-80% of TWS sailing, even in flat water!

Regards

Alan
ofcourse performance is one of the most important thing when I make this decision.. but I would choose direcly Lagoon 440 against to Catana 431 if Catana cant beat lagoon easily..I have also very good polar diagram of Lagoon 440..Lagoon was my best decision before. I will put this polar here tomorrow.
Price generally doesnt lie.. New Lagoon 440 and 8-10 years old Catana 431 are about the same price 400-500 k doolars.. Nobody would give that much money to 8 years old catana 431 if they were myth..
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Old 23-04-2008, 00:20   #33
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Price generally doesnt lie.. New Lagoon 440 and 8-10 years old Catana 431 are about the same price 400-500 k doolars.. Nobody would give that much money to 8 years old catana 431 if they were myth..
I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think the US$4-500K is the "base" price, a dealer in Florida said that once you add the options, the average sale price is $700-750K for the Lagoon 440.

Someone mentioned about adding more sail area, people have also lengthened the hulls and played other tricks, e.g. the Manta 38/40/42 are a very similar boat with lengthened hulls, as was one of the Seawinds I believe. I wonder what the costs of turbo charging one of the cats is.
e.g. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ows-13752.html
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Old 23-04-2008, 02:52   #34
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polars

Tnflakbait please do, publish away, are you polars self generated or from the designers?
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Old 23-04-2008, 03:10   #35
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Pacificbliss owner are here in Turkey right now and I touched them but they want to sell her in September after finishing their trip where they started..I think she must be very tired also..I dont want to wait that much..I have tried to make this decision for five years and this summer I want to sailaway

I will be waiting for your report impatiently

Mamo,

I am not sure whether you have done enough yr home work before choosing which cat to go with or not..
Speed is one of the criteria (it may be #1 on yr list) but there are many others, ie. space, comfort,second hand price, servicing in Turkey or abroad, overall reliability of the boat and the rigging, etc..)
This will all depend on where and how you want to sail..
If speed comes first for you, Catana surely is not the way to go.. Fastcat would easily beat her in this respect for about the same price.. The second hand of value of Catana, however, would be better than Fastcat and probably be easier to sell.. In terms of volume per feet Lagoons and FP's would be much better..
In short, there are no absolute wrong or rights. Everyone has its own priorities / tastes adn budget. That's why we have so many different boats and brands around.. The important is to get the right one for you. If you are planning to make the coastal sailing between Gocek and Bodrum, you'd better go for Lagoon and FP's. Yr friends, yr guests and specifically yr wife will be much better impressed..
If you want to circumnavigate, then you should give a second thought..There are many people who believes that Lagoons and FP' are "lightly" built for that purpose. (I tend to disagree since I've ordered an Orana 44 and planning a circumnavigation in 2 to 3 years after some upgrades on the boat)

A final note.. As someone has already mentioned, there is huge price difference between a factory price and loaded prices. In most of the cases, even some basics are not included in the ex factory prices. You can easily spend USD 50 K for a decent upgrade, without even talking about heating, A/C, radar, etc..

Good luck..

Yeloya

NB. I am too living in Istanbul. If you send to me a personal mail, we can further chat about..
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Old 23-04-2008, 03:47   #36
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Okay - with all due respect I think we are being had here. I suspect Mamo may be an alter ego of some of our favourite friends.

I dont have polars of my boat - I just know in our handicap start races I get started later every week, light wind - heavy wind - upwind - downwind.
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Old 23-04-2008, 04:46   #37
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conspiracy theory

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Okay - with all due respect I think we are being had here. I suspect Mamo may be an alter ego of some of our favourite friends.

I don't have polars of my boat - I just know in our handicap start races I get started later every week, light wind - heavy wind - upwind - downwind.

We do like a good conspiracy theory.

In that case I suspect they start you last to well and truly make sure you don't place in the results.
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Old 23-04-2008, 06:34   #38
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I put below adress the offical polar diagram of Lagoon 440..

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1554/p440de8.gif
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Old 23-04-2008, 06:38   #39
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Old 23-04-2008, 06:44   #40
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I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think the US$4-500K is the "base" price, a dealer in Florida said that once you add the options, the average sale price is $700-750K for the Lagoon 440.
here is the price offer they gave to me include some option and transport to Turkey and some discount..

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Old 23-04-2008, 07:06   #41
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We do like a good conspiracy theory.

In that case I suspect they start you last to well and truly make sure you don't place in the results.
Perhaps you could crew for me one day and I could learn from your vast knowledge.
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Old 23-04-2008, 07:56   #42
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Catty and Factor,

Perhaps you two could return to the subject at hand. Mamo is looking for advice, not displays of personal animosity.
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Old 23-04-2008, 08:01   #43
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Tnflakbait please do, publish away, are you polars self generated or from the designers?
Hey,
They are generated by the designers, I'll get em up soon. (Gotta scan the image)
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Old 23-04-2008, 08:23   #44
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That looks about right. VMG of 3.5 upwind and VMG of 7 downwind in 16 true. A bit slower then the Fastcat but also a bit less expensive. Tradewind reaching looks great and really that is how most people cruise their boats. My father in law says, "cats go upwind very well with both engines firewalled", can't argue that logic.
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Old 23-04-2008, 12:52   #45
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they publish this review their website and claim it is going very close to wind speed. 6 knots at 8 knots of wind and 8 knots at 10 knots of wind..


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