Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

[beiland]

Originally Posted by spiv

Brian, this is a very interesting topic and I might even be interested in the retrofit idea and be the 'Guinea pig'.

However, are we not off thread subject?
Would you open a new thread and transfer the most relevant topics?

You might say I ventured a bit off topic, , but it came about honestly when these two posting subjects came up:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/performance-50-55-cats-outremer-vs-catana-vs-swiss-catamaran-156934.html#post1971936

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1971994

Sometimes you just can't plan these things.

I'm not sure how I might title a new subject thread with these 'other topics'?

[rickpalm]

I can speak to the question regarding the sailing ability of the Outremer 51 having picked up our boat in France in September of '14 and sailing about 11,000 miles since then.
Our sailing on this boat includes some sailing in the Med, passage from the Med to St Lucia up the Caribbean Islands and back home to the US, a season in New England and a return trip to the Caribbean from the east coast this fall.
Granted this is our first catamaran so we have spent lots of time converting from our life time of monohull sailing and learning to get the most out of the Outremer 51. On the passage from the states to the Caribbean this year we averaged 8.2 Kn for 1300 miles which included about 24 hrs of motoring at 7Kn or so. I think the boat performs very well in a variety of conditions including light air. We have had a chance to sail in conditions up to 40Kn both up and down wind and are pleased with the performance so far. We worked to keep the weight down below the designed max sailing weight and believe we are about 1000 Lb below that weight with our cruising gear on board.
Contrary to many reports on this forum we have had "0" problems dealing with the factory in France. The boat was ready when promised at contract signing, all the equipment we ordered was installed, we had a very professional hand over of the boat including instruction on the systems. We have had no problems getting warranty work done. As an example we had a leaky hatch. We emailed to the factory with a quote to get the work done and had the go ahead in two days. Frankly, we have had very few issues other than some initial problems related to the electronics package installation which were corrected by the time we left the Canary Islands with the ARC+ in November of 14.
We have owned 4 new boats to date. Tayana 37, Tayana 52 (circumnavigated on that boat), Saga 48 and the Outremer 51. We have had the least problems with the 51, and the Tayana 52 which I commissioned myself.
If the OP would like to PM me we can talk at length about our experience with Outremer.

Rick Palm

[Catbuyer]

Originally Posted by rickpalm

I can speak to the question regarding the sailing ability of the Outremer 51 having picked up our boat in France in September of '14 and sailing about 11,000 miles since then.
Our sailing on this boat includes some sailing in the Med, passage from the Med to St Lucia up the Caribbean Islands and back home to the US, a season in New England and a return trip to the Caribbean from the east coast this fall.
Granted this is our first catamaran so we have spent lots of time converting from our life time of monohull sailing and learning to get the most out of the Outremer 51. On the passage from the states to the Caribbean this year we averaged 8.2 Kn for 1300 miles which included about 24 hrs of motoring at 7Kn or so. I think the boat performs very well in a variety of conditions including light air. We have had a chance to sail in conditions up to 40Kn both up and down wind and are pleased with the performance so far. We worked to keep the weight down below the designed max sailing weight and believe we are about 1000 Lb below that weight with our cruising gear on board.
Contrary to many reports on this forum we have had "0" problems dealing with the factory in France. The boat was ready when promised at contract signing, all the equipment we ordered was installed, we had a very professional hand over of the boat including instruction on the systems. We have had no problems getting warranty work done. As an example we had a leaky hatch. We emailed to the factory with a quote to get the work done and had the go ahead in two days. Frankly, we have had very few issues other than some initial problems related to the electronics package installation which were corrected by the time we left the Canary Islands with the ARC+ in November of 14.
We have owned 4 new boats to date. Tayana 37, Tayana 52 (circumnavigated on that boat), Saga 48 and the Outremer 51. We have had the least problems with the 51, and the Tayana 52 which I commissioned myself.
If the OP would like to PM me we can talk at length about our experience with Outremer.

Rick Palm

Hi rick

First of I wanna thank you for replying even do I think you might have done it in the wrong thread .. so question is have you talked with other owners how they feedback has been or things that needed to be fixed ....

[beiland]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Beiland, thanks for your time to post. It was interesting.

Surprise, surprise, a few days ago I was driving around some dock areas here in St Augustine when I ran across this big catamaran, "Cat's Meow". I had forgotten all about this innovative design by Derek Kelsall way back in 1988. Now that I think about it I believe it was this design combined with the Prouts and the Stilettos that likely peaked my interest in the 'central nacelle' subject.

I went to her website,...
Sail Trekker - The Catamaran
...and extracted a few photos.

The owners wife has invited me down for a personal inspection (as soon as our weather clears up a bit). I hope to talk with the owners about their personal experiences with their vessel. Should be interesting.

Perhaps Derek could add a few comments here?

[DerekKelsall]

Originally Posted by beiland

Surprise, surprise, a few days ago I was driving around some dock areas here in St Augustine when I ran across this big catamaran, "Cat's Meow". I had forgotten all about this innovative design by Derek Kelsall way back in 1988. Now that I think about it I believe it was this design combined with the Prouts and the Stilettos that likely peaked my interest in the 'central nacelle' subject.

I went to her website,...
Sail Trekker - The Catamaran
...and extracted a few photos.

The owners wife has invited me down for a personal inspection (as soon as our weather clears up a bit). I hope to talk with the owners about their personal experiences with their vessel. Should be interesting.

Perhaps Derek could add a few comments here?

Hi,

this is the cat that got the cream. She had had a bit of a checkered history. The surveyors report when current owners bought began - It is once every ten years that I get to give such a glowing report. If I recall correctly, the only negatives were two bilge pumps in dry compartments which did not work.

We did a number of variations on the nacelle theme. Anchor stow., D Board, outboard and rudder. These items are simpler to build into a nacelle and do not impact on accommodation. As wave piercing - yes, but that has not been the deciding factor. Depends on where the slamming is. Would help where the b'deck is too far forward. The all curved bridge-deck can look the part but that will mean a double structure in the accommodation area and not an easy build.

My own cruising cat today would be - very simple, light weight, least possible draft, single board, single rudder, outboard, trim board in one or both transoms and side by side masts with modest sail area. Not for everyone, but boating and the simple camping style life I found went together.

My cat would not have the popular three stay rig It would be all plain foam sandwich. There would be nothing to rot. Not high cost either.

There is more - a lot more. For another time.

Happy boating

Derek.

[Imprezza72]

I am sorry but I have to say that while these previous posts are interesting and not to take away from anyone but what do they have to do with the OP's original question? Outremer vs. Catana vs. Swiss Cat?

[spiv]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

.... and is sailed mostly every week off Western Australia, often in the Doctor, the strong sea breeze that fills in over there.

I am in WA, do you have a contact for the owner, I'd love to have a look. You can PM me if you prefer.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by spiv

I am in WA, do you have a contact for the owner, I'd love to have a look. You can PM me if you prefer.

Well worth a good look and perhaps sail, Spiv.

Cheers

[beiland]

Originally Posted by uslafcid

Hi,

I'm trying to get more information about performance cruiser catamarans (still lots of living space, but daggerboards, etc.), but unfortunately I don't have any first or second hand knowledge of these boats. There are a few that have caught my eye: The Outremer 51, the Catana 50, and the Swiss Catmaran 55.

Purusing online magazine reviews, doesn't really tell me what I want to know, or obvious considerations (catana = exposed helm). They are usually overly positive reviews about a single test sail. I want to know about longer-term owner thoughts. Which one is reliable. At the end of the day, I want to sail the boat without it constantly falling apart which is all too common in the sailboat world. Swiss Catamaran, while I particularly like the design, I see almost zero information out there as it is a newer brand.

Anyone have any first or secondhand information about these boats? Which one was built with long term integrity in mind and owners have been happy with vs which ones had the most problem after paying and leaving the dock and waving goodbye?

I know its a bit smaller than you asked for, but its been packaged compactly in a 40 footer. It does appear to have some nice performance, and stability

video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KWDE9G_k-M

[monte]

The newer open 46 might be more suitable, reasonably priced at around €380 so I heard, but I'm not sure what level of equipment that would be. It looks like a wrong step in the galley would have you on the cabin sole on the open 40, but I haven't had a look onboard to have a real look.

[beiland]

You're correct Monte, I thought I saw there was a larger model with this same hull design, but I got confused. ...46

Interesting that the OP has not joined in any other conversations, including this one he started??

[Imprezza72]

Originally Posted by beiland

You're correct Monte, I thought I saw there was a larger model with this same hull design, but I got confused. ...46

Interesting that the OP has not joined in any other conversations, including this one he started??

I believe this thread has strayed from his question. Re-read his original post... Monte do you own or have owned a Nautitech open? I was following this thread for the same reasons the OP listed and while I have found some end user posts (Archer I believe thanks!) if there are more I am interested in their perspectives. As such this thread is becoming useless from my point of view, do what you will, I won't be following it anymore and while I am not sure, the OP he may have done so as well.

[beiland]

If you have been around the forums very much, you may notice that the subject matter does not always stayed NARROWLY focused on just the beginning posting Other questions come up, and some folks answer them. It does get into tread drift, but at least most of this tread stayed focused on sailing cats.

Sorry you didn't learn anything, and found the tread useless

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by Imprezza72

I believe this thread has strayed from his question. Re-read his original post... Monte do you own or have owned a Nautitech open? I was following this thread for the same reasons the OP listed and while I have found some end user posts (Archer I believe thanks!) if there are more I am interested in their perspectives. As such this thread is becoming useless from my point of view, do what you will, I won't be following it anymore and while I am not sure, the OP he may have done so as well.

Well, the original post had nothing to do with a Nautitech open.

Regardless, the OP hasn't posted again on this discussion nor any where else. I offered first hand info on post #9. It is frustrating to sincerely answer questions and not even get an acknowledgement. Oh well.

Dave

[beiland]

Originally Posted by uslafcid

Hi,

I'm trying to get more information about performance cruiser catamarans (still lots of living space, but daggerboards, etc.), but unfortunately I don't have any first or second hand knowledge of these boats.

I want to know about longer-term owner thoughts. Which one is reliable. At the end of the day, I want to sail the boat without it constantly falling apart which is all too common in the sailboat world.

The gentleman was asking about performance cruising catamarans. He also mentions a few (3) he had considered, but I did not read that he was ONLY interested in those 3.