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Old 21-12-2015, 05:41   #91
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

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A refit is NEVER finished...
Of course you're correct. Perhaps I should have said "maybe June I can sail my boat again...." Or I'll just be switching modes - from refit to continuous maintenance........

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Old 21-12-2015, 05:47   #92
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

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Or I'll just be switching modes - from refit to continuous maintenance........



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Ah yes, the old semantics game!

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Old 21-12-2015, 06:46   #93
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

To get back to the subject title, I wonder why the Broadblue Rapier 550 hasn't been mentioned as a possibility; high tech, high performance, Gunboaty style, with alternative tiller steering and sail controls aft in the hulls. The smaller Rapier 400 is definitely on my lust list.

US agent: Tartan Sailing Yachts of Fairport Harbor, Ohio.

Yachting World review: Broadblue Rapier 550 boat test – Yachting World with video on Youtube.
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Old 21-12-2015, 23:14   #94
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

Because they're not a performance Cat, IMO.


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Old 22-12-2015, 03:54   #95
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

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Because they're not a performance Cat, IMO.


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I suppose it depends what you mean by performance; you might say that only the America's Cup cats are true performance boats but.....

Certainly, the Yachting World reviewer, who actually sailed on her, considered her a performance yacht, and found easy double digit speed:

"We sailed upwind, matching the true wind speed at 40° to the apparent breeze"; in the video he says 10kn boatspeed in 10kn wind true; designer Darren Newton has experience designing fast boats.

If you consider an Outremer or a Catana a performance cat (as the thread title does), then you should consider both Rapiers similarly.
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Old 22-12-2015, 06:01   #96
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

Just to supplement, Lagoon 560s2 Light(?) displacement over 30 tonnes, Rapier 550 displacement under 10 tonnes.
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Old 22-12-2015, 06:38   #97
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Design ideas for disabled sailors (catamarans)

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To get back to the subject title, I wonder why the Broadblue Rapier 550 hasn't been mentioned as a possibility;

Yachting World review: Broadblue Rapier 550 boat test – Yachting World with video on Youtube.
Interesting vessel, and likely one that could be a good platform for a handicapped sailor. There was this discussion on that subject here:
Design ideas for disabled sailors



One design discussed there, Impossible Dream, is a better looking vessel in my opinion.
BBC News | ENGLAND | Sailing the 'Impossible Dream'BBC NEWS | UK | England | Sailor realises 'Impossible Dream'

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Old 22-12-2015, 06:56   #98
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Re: Design ideas for disabled sailors (catamarans)

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Interesting vessel, and likely one that could be a good platform for a handicapped sailor. There was this discussion on that subject here:
Design ideas for disabled sailors


Or, of course, for a retired couple, which might have to be single handed by the weaker of the pair after injury or sudden health problem. Without a pro crew member, a couple on passage will tend to be single handed much of the time even without injury.
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Old 22-12-2015, 07:49   #99
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

I guess sailing really has become an inside sport : - (
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Old 22-12-2015, 09:40   #100
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

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I guess sailing really has become an inside sport : - (
I guess you didn't actually watch the video review; you can helm, control the sails etc. from aft in/on the hulls using a back to basics tiller; must be the only tiller steered 55ft cat. As you would have read in the thread on helm positions, most people when on passage watch-keep/helm from the saloon with an ap remote.

I think it's the recent general realisation that tropical sunlight isn't very good for you except with only brief exposure that's responsible for the permanent solid biminis on most new cats; the Rapier has large opening windows around the saloon/cockpit which allows it to be like an open cockpit with solid bimini.

BTW I have no connection with Broadblue or Nic Bailey or Darren Newton, but I think both Rapiers point in a hopeful direction for sailing cats and fast passage making yachts
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Old 22-12-2015, 13:27   #101
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

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...BTW I have no connection with Broadblue or Nic Bailey or Darren Newton, but I think both Rapiers point in a hopeful direction for sailing cats and fast passage making yachts
Here I will have to disagree with you and that future direction.

Without the wind in your face and on your body you loose a lot of the feel and sense of sailing. And loose a lot of the sense of trimming those sails for best performance.

Sure it great that they have mastered a portion of this with new technologies, but that is just not sailing to me. And please give me a tiller when ever you can,...no hydraulic steering & wheels if possible,...not enough 'feel' in the steering.
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Old 22-12-2015, 16:24   #102
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

Couldn't agree more!
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Old 22-12-2015, 19:32   #103
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

I think it's probably time to end this, but...

The Rapier 550 does have two tillers out in the open at the stern of each hull, complete with sail controls, which will give you the wind in the hair experience for daysailing. On a shorthanded 20 day passage, you might want to give a miss to water, wind and sun exposure to keep your energy levels up to face the occasional extreme bad weather.

I see this more as an extension of Blondie Hasler's Jester, Jock McLeod's Ron Glas and Bill King's Galway Blazer II, when transatlantic and longer passages were made in pyjamas and slippers with no use of oilskins. Note that these boats didn't have proper cockpits but were less suitable for relaxing in pleasant anchorages.
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Old 16-07-2016, 08:14   #104
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Re: Longitudinal Stiffing

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I've had these thoughts on my mind for many years, so i went back to find some history of postings;
1) 2003..... Big Cat, alt CB's & sail rigs - Boat Design Forums
2) 2004....subject came up again, Wave splitter on catamarans
3) 2007....Center nacelles and wave pounding in cats
4) 2004... Bridge Deck Slamming
Sorry to have been so lengthy with this reply, but you touched a nerve with me that the O-Yacht catamaran designer also recognizes.
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Structure of the O-Yacht catamaran
Not talking wave splitting here, but certainly longitudinal stiffing of catamaran structure,...ie America's Cup cats
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Old 16-07-2016, 15:36   #105
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Re: Performance 50-55' Cats: Outremer vs Catana vs Swiss Catamaran

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Originally Posted by nuvaslacker View Post
Certainly, the Yachting World reviewer, who actually sailed on her, considered her a performance yacht, and found easy double digit speed:

"We sailed upwind, matching the true wind speed at 40° to the apparent breeze"; in the video he says 10kn boatspeed in 10kn wind true; designer Darren Newton has experience designing fast boats.

If you consider an Outremer or a Catana a performance cat (as the thread title does), then you should consider both Rapiers similarly.

That's certainly decent performance. But while sailing at TWS at 40' apparent is making progress to windward, it's only just.

ie 10 knots boatspeed at 40'AWA in 10 knots true = only 1.74 kts VMG to windward. And you'd be tacking through 160'.

Good reaching speed though.
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