PDQs with Outboards

[nautical62]

For those who have cruised on the PDQ 32 or 36 with outboards, I'm curious as to your thoughts on the pluses and minuses. Obviously they have smaller alternators and produce less power. I'm more curious about how they handle bigger seas, (props coming out, worry about submerging engine block, etc.) how easy they are to get out for maintenance, etc.

I owned a cruising monohull with an outboard for a while, but it was transom hung.

[billyehh]

It all depends on your cruising area. I had a timeshare in a PDQ 32. It was first placed in the BVI's. Being a coastal cruiser it was well suited for the Sir Francis Drake Channel. Later it was placed in the Grenadines and was often overpowered by open ocean sailing.

Yes it would cavitate especialy in the Bequia Channel. One crossing took twice as long as usual due to the 14 ft. waves and 30 knot winds

The out board alternators are next to useless, try solar or be tied to a dock. It is a solid little boat and a lot of fun. It sailed reasonable well for being a small catamaran. Up wind was a bit of a challenge but thats why God invented motorsailing.
It is a open craft and in some ways a little like camping on water. I really enjoyed it. However for serious cruising in the Caribbean I recommend something larger with diesels.

[nautical62]

Thanks Billyehh. Very helpful. Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.

I'm looking mostly for Bahamas sailing, so hopefully 14 foot waves would be rare.

[SeaKing]

My wife and I had a 34' original with outboards, short transoms but laid out like the 36. We sailed in the Chesapeake and dike get caught in heavy thunderstorms or high winds a few times and the boat struggled with the outboards.

we got caught last evening in a severe thunderstorm and saw gust to 45 with short choppy seas to 5 and 6 for a 20 minute period while in the middle of the bay. I thought about our old PDQ and how I really liked our Voyage, but it is a lot bigger boat. 27 foot beam compared to the 18 of the PDQ. The two 40 HP Yanmars kept us steady and let the storm blow by, while I watched on Radar its progress.

hey Billyehh, where is your 38', is it the one in charter at Tortola? If so my wife and I chartered it Christmas and New Year before last. That trip started the ball rolling for us to purchase a new 520 Owners version to be completed and put in charter by the end of the year, then have it for retirement in 4-5 years.

We did enjoy our PDQ very much and I miss it sometimes for the simplicity.

[nautical62]

SeaKing - in what ways did you find the PDQ to be simpler than your current boat?

[SeaKing]

Less systems, now have generator, 3 heads, 4 air conditioners, 2 diesels to maintain(outboards easier), all plumbing , two hot water heaters, Much bigger sails, can sail this one sort of by myself PDQ was easier(smaller). Need help to tie up, docking. I could handle the PDQ totatly by myself.

Different boats in size and comforts. I would really miss the room we have now and safety in size. I like not having much gasoline to worry about, need to get a diesel outbard for the dingy now.

[nautical62]

Thanks SeaKing.

I wonder if anyone repowers them with diesel outboards instead of gas.

[thinwater]

Cavitate? I've had them in gales and 12 foot sees and never managed to cavitate. I experienced a gale the first day we owned her and she motored slowly into the waves and 40 knot gusts with one engine (the other had spun a prop). While I'm sure it is possible in some conditions, an inboard would likely be having issues as well.

No, the engines only catche a little spray and never gets wet. On the PDQ the engines are well forward, in the center cockpit, near the center of motion. You can pop the lids and work on them, after a fashion, underway. I removed a carb while sailing once. Also, removing the engines with a hoist is not bad and can be done on the water (my blog has a post about engine replacement).

The engine are loud. That is my gripe. Also, since they were built in Canada (cold), the ventilation to the aft cabins is poor. On the other hand, it heats easily!

I wouldn't worry too much about the gasoline. It is stored in a dedicated compartment in the bridge deck that drains only to the sea. Neither gas nor fumes can reach the cabin or bilge. It is also a good compartment for dingy gas and small propane cylinders (there is a proper well for 2 larger cylinders up front).

No, she's not great to windward. There is an honest, real world, speed polar on my blog.Sail Delmarva: Speed Polars. In reality, we tack through about 105 degrees GPS heading.

Too small for the Carib? Better, ask zero-to-cruising (link on my blog). They have been cruising the area for nearly a year, from Canada. I think that is more a mater of taste and comfort than capability. It is a very tough boat.

Engine fit is tight. Yamaha 9.9s are the main choice.

Open boat? Billy, are you sure it was a PDQ 32? They were built in Canada, are center cockpit with a hard top, and have 2 aft queen cabins. Head, shower, galley with stove, microwave, and fridge. Big salon table. I think perhaps you are confused. Sure, there is a lot of deck but you don't need to live there.

The engines charge at 10 amps; pretty lame. Most add solar.

You will find a lot of PDQ stuff on my blog, below. Also check the PDQ formum (link on my blog side bar).

[witzgall]

Originally Posted by nautical62

Thanks SeaKing.

I wonder if anyone repowers them with diesel outboards instead of gas.

The PDQ brought to the Annapolis Boatshow one of the early 1990 years had outboard 27hp Yanmars fitted.

Chris

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by witzgall

The PDQ brought to the Annapolis Boatshow one of the early 1990 years had outboard 27hp Yanmars fitted.

Chris

The mountings are a bit different; the PDQ 36 has more possibilities. The 32 simply doesn't need more motor, while the 36 could use more a times.

The Yanmar outboard is discontinued, I believe. Good luck finding anything smaller than 50 hp.

[nautical62]

More great info Thinwater, thanks.

Witzgall, nice to know larger outboards are an option on the 36.

[billyehh]

Nautical 62: The compartment for the engines is very tight and when it was repowered with a different engine than the Yamaha 9.9 they would not tilt up out of the way. Check the size even of the new Yamaha to make sure it will fit properly. It added a lot of drag not being able to retract the outboards. I think that any diesel outboard would not fit, but check anyway, I may be wrong.

Sea King: No, I bought my Voyage 38 in Grenada from a private individual and use it all winter long in the Eastern Caribbean. This past season I spent most of the time in the St. Maarten area. Next season I'm thinking of Cuba.

Given how heavy diesel outboards are it is a heck of a tradeoff to be free of gasoline. I use a 2 stroke on my dinghy to save weight. It makes working with the Voyage boomcrane easier and I am able to lift my dinghy every night.

You are right about less systems, when I bought the Voyage it was a sharp learning curve. The PDQ was sort of like camping on water only more comfortable and more fun.

Thinwater: Yes it was hull number 2, built in Whitby, Ontario. Even though the engines are fairly far forward they would still cavitate under conditions with short choppy seas. You are right, it is a well built tough little boat. However as you mentioned it does not go to windward all that well. I was able to get it back to the base in St. Vincent, but talking to the staff there some were not able to get it back upwind from the Grenadines. This even included their charter captains. If you are willing to wait for weather it is perfectly fine for the Eastern Caribbean.

What I mean by an open craft is the huge hatch opening. With the dodger down (or disintigrated) it opens up the saloon to the wide outdoors. I liked it, but not alot of creature comforts

[sandy daugherty]

There have been similar discussions on the merits of one particular outboard, the Yahama High Thrust 9.9 on PDQs. Most of the boats built were equipped with this engine because it is the ONLY outboard that really works on Cats. It is also installed on several other production Cats, and the bulk of custom built catamarans under 45 feet. Its special qualifications are a 3:1 gear ratio and room for a large diameter propeller. These are not avialable on any other motor.

I have owned both the PDQ 32 and the 36, and appreciate them very much. I have also owned A Stiletto 30, Simpson 34, and part of a Chris White Atlantic 42. Let me differentiate the PDQs from the others.

The PDQ was designed as a Coastal Cruiser. It has been sailed far off shore successfully. It is a very well built boat; the factory was next door to the old Whitby Boat works and provided employment for Whitby's finest craftsmen. They are remarkably free of failure points or bad habits, so they provide a very secure and trustworthy vessel. They have held their value over the years perhaps better than any other marque save Oyster.
The 34 was the first production boat and was soon stretched to 36', with many the 34s being refitted at the factory. The 36 is relatively under sailed, with a mast short enough to clear every bridge on the ICW and the Everglades passage to the West Coast of Florida.

The rigging is over spec too, but the boat sails well. With new sails and a clean bottom, the 36 will tack thru 95 degrees. That's not bad for a LAR -keeled catamaran. One 36 was built with dagger boards and it's MINE if it ever comes on the market.

Diesels were an option but the fixed saildrive detracted as much as a knot from the sailing performance, adding weight and drag while providing up to 80 watts for the batteries. Since there have been no fires on the outboard boats, the safety claim hasn't demonstrated any value.

On my 36 I commonly raise the engines a foot or so out of the wells with a halyard to service and winterize these motors. I don't have to disconnect any controls or hoses to do that, and its a LOT easier to sit comfortably and see what your doing. PDQ owners typically expect 2500 hours from a well maintained yamaha, that still has resale value. The motor is also popular as a kicker on 20 to 26' sport fishing boats.

The original accomodations were two queensize berths forward, a optional drop down dinette with room for three, and a generous single in the port aft cabin. Most 36s are content with two doubles.

Some boats are loaded with refrigeration, hot water, water maker, airconditioning, radar, and more. The fastest PDQs are the lightest, and they are also the easiest to maintain. If you don't have it, it won't break. The advantage in buying a loaded boat is you can take it out if you don't use it after all.

A few have an onboard generator. Mine does. A more reasonable choice is a portable generator like the Honda EU2000, that can run a reasonable Airconditioner with a few tricks.

Speed? It will go faster than you want. That's true because most PDQ owners prefer the comfort and quiet of slightly slower pace over the adrenaline rush of sailing close to the limits. We are not racers unless some poor monohull has the effrontery to be sailing in the same direction on a nice day!

One more arguement for outboards: If one turns uncooperative, you can always invite it into the sunlit cockpit for a frank heart-to-heart discussion with some common hand tools, and convince it of the error of its ways! On our Atlantic 42 the engine spaces are very generous compared to others, but still awfully cramped and hot (very hot) to work in.

[Jerry Woodward]

I too am interested in the relative advantages/disadvantages of outboards vs inboard diesel: in particular, I'm looking at the Gemini vs PDQ. I've read all the discussions, but there are a few points I haven't seen addressed.
1. Weight: Is there a weight savings of 2 9.9 Yamahas over the Weterbeake diesel in the Gemini?
2. Fuel availability/contamination: A lot of people seem to have trouble with bad diesel fuel or water contamination in their tanks. Is gasoline as much of a problem as diesel in this regard? Are gasoline and diesel equally available in the Caribbean?
3. Ease of maintenance vs frequency of maintenance: Most people cite the advantage of outboards is that they are much easier to work on. However, how frequently do they require work compared to a well maintained diesel? Reading comments in Thinwater's blog like "I hate Yamahas", and "they are really loud", and having to stand in the water to do a repair using a floating tool box doesn't give me much encouragement.

enquiring minds want to know.......

[Tropic Cat]

Jerry,

You aren't comparing apples to apples here. A Gemini and PDQ may be close in size but are different classes of boat. Check the boat weights. As for your engine question, the difference is in what you didn't ask.

1. Running life of the Yamaha 2500 hours. The Westerbeke 10,000 hours and then a $2500 rebuild
2. Charging capacity... Yamaha 6 amps (70 watts) Westerbeke 50 amps (600 watts)

As for the questions you did ask

Weight
Yamaha 100 lbs
Westerbeke 274 lbs

maintenance vs frequency of maintenance
Yamaha tune ups and carburetor rebuilds
Westerbeke none ( no wires, no plugs, no distributor)

Fuel
Learn the correct additives for diesels and there are no issues. I have two diesel engines in my boat.

Remember, all boats are a compromise. It really depends on what you plan on using the boat for.