PDQ 32 vs Gemini 105MC

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by welshdiver

Head room is close to 6;6. but depends on year/modles as there are 2 models LRC & Classic, so quit good, main diff is one has inboard diesel other out board petrol . But you neeed to take both out as sil size is also diff.

Thank you, I thought so. I'm going to keep looking at the Classic, as I prefer the outboards and will replace with a pair of 4Kw electric outboards by Torqeedo. Run (2) 48 volt inverters so that I can charge with a small diesel genset at a rate that keeps up with propulsion requirements. Have a large enough 48 volt battery bank for at least 15 nm before the genny needs to be cranked on. This is what you call cheap hybrid, except for the cost of those Torqeedos. Well, almost cheap

(2) Torqeedos $7800
(2) 48 volt 4Kw inverters $3600
(32) 3.2 volt 180 a/hr CALB $7500

After all that, carefree cruising.

[smj]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Thank you, I thought so. I'm going to keep looking at the Classic, as I prefer the outboards and will replace with a pair of 4Kw electric outboards by Torqeedo. Run (2) 48 volt inverters so that I can charge with a small diesel genset at a rate that keeps up with propulsion requirements. Have a large enough 48 volt battery bank for at least 15 nm before the genny needs to be cranked on. This is what you call cheap hybrid, except for the cost of those Torqeedos. Well, almost cheap

(2) Torqeedos $7800
(2) 48 volt 4Kw inverters $3600
(32) 3.2 volt 180 a/hr CALB $7500

After all that, carefree cruising.

Wouldn't that weigh quite a bit more than the outboard setup? If so how much? The PDQ's are pretty weight sensitive. It does sound like a nice setup though.

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by smj

Wouldn't that weigh quite a bit more than the outboard setup? If so how much? The PDQ's are pretty weight sensitive. It does sound like a nice setup though.

Batteries just under 400 lbs but serve as house batteries also.
Cruise 4.0 is 38 lbs so a savings of 70 lbs per motor.
A diesel gen set that is designed for 48 volt charging can run at any rpm, not needing a fixed rpm that is divisiable by 60 for 120/240 VAC 60 cycle is much lighter than a conventional diesel generator running at 1800 rpm. To give you an idea of how much weight you save by producing DC charging voltage instead of household voltage, 20 Kw at any voltage between 24 to 500 DC is only 320 lbs from Polar Power. If you run inverters you don't need the weight of a conventional gen set, or complexity, just a diesel engine driving a charging generator (a PM alternator with rectifiers).

[Canibul]

Did anyone yet mention one of the major differences in the PDQ 32 and the Gemini is the draft? It's 18" for the Gemini, and 34" for the PDQ.

That is the game changer for us. A PDQ will hit coral heads here in many places at low tides. A Gemini won't, with the boards up. And with the boards down, they swivel up.

I don't see the issues with one diesel motor vs two gasoline ones. I'll take the diesel every time. Put a dinghy motor mount on the Gem, if it worries you.

People in third world countries steal outboards. They can use them. In fact, since we've been here, dinghys, outboards and portable gas cans are the only things we have heard of being lifted from boats. Be kinda intense to try to steal that diesel out of a Gemini. I've never heard of it being done.

PDQ is a better looking boat. I have no doubt it's well built. A shame it draws so much water for a small boat.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Canibul

People in third world countries steal outboards. They can use them. In fact, since we've been here, dinghys, outboards and portable gas cans are the only things we have heard of being lifted from boats. Be kinda intense to try to steal that diesel out of a Gemini. I've never heard of it being done.

Stealing an outboard from a PDQ 32 would be a bit more intense than you realize. Hours. They are not transom mounted.
Sail Delmarva: Removing and Replacing the Engines in a PDQ 32

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Did anyone yet mention one of the major differences in the PDQ 32 and the Gemini is the draft? It's 18" for the Gemini, and 34" for the PDQ.

I'm looking at the PDQ 36, its draft is 34", but compared to a mono of the same interior space, won't keep me from reef lined anchorages, just come and go during high tide. Would not try that in the 6'~7' draft of a 40'+ mono.

[smj]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Batteries just under 400 lbs but serve as house batteries also.
Cruise 4.0 is 38 lbs so a savings of 70 lbs per motor.
A diesel gen set that is designed for 48 volt charging can run at any rpm, not needing a fixed rpm that is divisiable by 60 for 120/240 VAC 60 cycle is much lighter than a conventional diesel generator running at 1800 rpm. To give you an idea of how much weight you save by producing DC charging voltage instead of household voltage, 20 Kw at any voltage between 24 to 500 DC is only 320 lbs from Polar Power. If you run inverters you don't need the weight of a conventional gen set, or complexity, just a diesel engine driving a charging generator (a PM alternator with rectifiers).

Sounds as if you may bring the weight up close to the diesel model PDQ. Positive aspect is you won't be dragging the props.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Did anyone yet mention one of the major differences in the PDQ 32 and the Gemini is the draft? It's 18" for the Gemini, and 34" for the PDQ.

That is the game changer for us. A PDQ will hit coral heads here in many places at low tides. A Gemini won't, with the boards up. And with the boards down, they swivel up.

I don't see the issues with one diesel motor vs two gasoline ones. I'll take the diesel every time. Put a dinghy motor mount on the Gem, if it worries you.

People in third world countries steal outboards. They can use them. In fact, since we've been here, dinghys, outboards and portable gas cans are the only
things we have heard of being lifted from boats. Be kinda intense to try to
steal that diesel out of a Gemini. I've never heard of it being done.

PDQ is a better looking boat. I have no doubt it's well built. A shame it draws so much water for a small boat.

We've owned a Gemini 3200 with a Honda 40 and also a 2000 model with a diesel for a short time. There is no way we would have kept the diesel model. It's extremely loud in the cockpit, it weighs a lot more which for the Gemini is important and I don't care for the Sillete drive leg. The Honda was quiet and smooth but probably used more fuel than the diesel with a burn rate of 3/4 gallon per hour at about 6.5 kts.

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Stealing an outboard from a PDQ 32 would be a bit more intense than you realize. Hours. They are not transom mounted.
Sail Delmarva: Removing and Replacing the Engines in a PDQ 32

I tried several times to view that link, but for some reason it freezes up on my screen. I can't scroll down. |

So my knowledge of the outboards on the PDQ 32 is still limited to what I can see on their brochures. Which says the motors are in pods. that would definitely help, if the motors are hidden away. But any exposed bit of outboard motor, or lower unit, here could be taken off in five minutes by experience outboard mechanics. They don't worry about step by step procedures, they can reassemble or sell the parts later. Just get em unbolted and gone.

And the guys that take outboards are some kind of experienced. Last year a group stole five boats in one night here, and four of them found next morning floating, no outboards. There is a ready, no questions asked, market for outboard motors among the fishing community here, in Haiti, and in the DR just 150 miles away. There is no formal boat registration here, and nobody asks questions about just another Yamaha or Honda. I could steal a Yamaha and put it on my boat and nobody would question where it came from. If the original owner didn't track it down, it would be mine. That simple. They all look the same. Nobody checks numbers. There are no titles.

While trying to find a photo of the PDQ installation, I came across this story of one capsizing. Interesting:

PDQ Forum • View topic - FLASH! PDQ 32 CAPSIZE

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Canibul

I tried several times to view that link, but for some reason it freezes up on my screen. I can't scroll down. |

So my knowledge of the outboards on the PDQ 32 is still limited to what I can see on their brochures. Which says the motors are in pods. that would definitely help, if the motors are hidden away. But any exposed bit of outboard motor, or lower unit, here could be taken off in five minutes by experience outboard mechanics. They don't worry about step by step procedures, they can reassemble or sell the parts later. Just get em unbolted and gone.

And the guys that take outboards are some kind of experienced. Last year a group stole five boats in one night here, and four of them found next morning floating, no outboards. There is a ready, no questions asked, market for outboard motors among the fishing community here, in Haiti, and in the DR just 150 miles away. There is no formal boat registration here, and nobody asks questions about just another Yamaha or Honda. I could steal a Yamaha and put it on my boat and nobody would question where it came from. If the original owner didn't track it down, it would be mine. That simple. They all look the same. Nobody checks numbers. There are no titles.

While trying to find a photo of the PDQ installation, I came across this story of one capsizing. Interesting:

PDQ Forum • View topic - FLASH! PDQ 32 CAPSIZE

The link is good and the blog seems to be running fine this AM. Try another machine. I think there is a lot of stuff on my blog that will give you a better picture of how the PDQ 32 works, even if it just for curiosity and you just flick pictures. Web surfing's fun.

Stealing just the lower unit? Wow. I changed a water pump while in the water--having done it enough times to be good at it--and it wasn't a picnick. Of course, I was being careful.

Capsize? There are 2 PDQ 32 capsizes that we are aware of. Both were idiots. Sail Delmarva: Capsize

[Canibul]

Link loads it up, but I can't scroll it so I can only see the top part. It acts like it's a frozen page kind of thing. My computers seem to be working fine.

Was at a party last night, at the house of a neighbor and we were talking boats ( duh) and he was telling me about his center console power boat. Last year thieves took one of his 200 hp outboards, and got it off the boat within minutes, it sounds like. They just cut wiring, fuel lines, control lines, etc. and unbolted it. Got started on the other one and for some reason left it. I guess their little "five minute timer" ran out or whatever, or they saw another boat or car coming, or who knows. Anyhow, they got clean away with one of them.

Without stretching my limited memory much, I can count up almost a dozen outboards we have heard stolen here, in just a few years. Dinghy motors especially, but anything of opportunity. The smaller ones are the most wanted. These are going onto wooden conch boats and local skiffs. They usually take the entire boat, and don't seem to want the hull. Some of them are found floating with the damage caused by ripping the outboards off as fast as possible. But the presence of the outboard was the cause for the boat being taken in the first place. If the boat did not have an outboard motor on it to be taken, the thieves would not bother with it. they are not interested in the GPS or radio or anything else. Two small outboards is twice the reason to pick THAT particular boat to steal. It's a two-for-one deal. Very attractive odds for a payoff.

And heck yes they'll steal the lower units. that's the part most often damaged in use, and not repairable with small parts. I can think of three lower units stolen that I personally know of. Two of them were from the contractor that built our house. I know of two props that were stolen, too. Nice shiny stainless ones.

It's not all a Corona commercial living down here.

So since we will likely be basing our boats here for some time to come, this is a factor for me. I'd be nervous about an outboard powered Wharram, for example, for exactly that reason. I'd have to come up with some way to try to secure an outboard.

[smj]

Maybe lock the outboard to the boat? I have heard of thieves going
As far as cutting out the transom to get the outboard.

[Canibul]

These guys go out equipped and ready to steal outboards. they know about bolt and chain cutters.

I just thought of another one to add to my list. 19 ft. Carolina skiff. We actually heard a dive boat discussing a skiff adrift on the VHF but didn't know our friend's was missing that morning.

[Canibul]

I also like the storage life of diesel, and that it doesn't get cut with ethanol in varying degrees depending upon which South American refinery it came from.

We see "petrol" here that will make your eyes water. Not sure where it comes from. Venezuela? Someplace with a lot of sugar cane? Some of the places we want to explore are off the standard USA to Bahamas, to USA (Fl-PR/USVI) fueling stops. There is no requirement for gasoline to meet US standards in any way.

Diesel is pretty standard. You can run cooking oil in one, without hurting it. try that with a four stroke outboard.

Of course, please keep in mind that I am mostly repeating the basic reasoning that went into our increasingly-set decision to buy a Gemini. Of course someone with other requirements and environment might have a different choice. And We don't like everything about it, by any means. I wish there was a slightly bigger version out there, something with just slightly more payload without sluggishing the boat noticeably. Two foot draft, max. Under 200K on used boat market. A track record. they've sold 1100 of them. It's a good formula for a certain slice of the market. The support group is nice.

we are exploring all options. Keep coming back to it as the most appropriate set of compromises for what we think we intend to do.

[smj]

Sounds like the Turks and Caicos shouldn't be at the top of the list as a cruising destination? Is there a lot of other crime there?