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Old 26-11-2012, 15:15   #106
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
N
So you don't think technology "trickles down" from race boats to cruising boats?

I think this is clearly true on monohulls, but less true on cruising cats, which are specifically designed CONTRARY to racing principles.

Yeah, there will be some tweaks and gear mods that make their way down, but for the most part I think (catamaran) cruisers want solid, low maintenance, easy to sail boats which can be left to the autohelm for many hours at a time while the owners enjoy the ride, taking care of their other daily needs.
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Old 26-11-2012, 15:28   #107
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
I think this is clearly true on monohulls, but less true on cruising cats, which are specifically designed CONTRARY to racing principles.

Yeah, there will be some tweaks and gear mods that make their way down, but for the most part I think (catamaran) cruisers want solid, low maintenance, easy to sail boats which can be left to the autohelm for many hours at a time while the owners enjoy the ride, taking care of their other daily needs.
I expect you are wrong here.

Most of the designers of the major production cats have extensive experience with racing cats and tri's. I find it hard to believe that knowledge fails to flow through in hull design and production materials and techniques. Refering here to R & C, lagoon and FP here.

Yes those same production builders also use interior designers for cosmetics.
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Old 26-11-2012, 17:11   #108
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Re: Passage Speed

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I expect you are wrong here.

Most of the designers of the major production cats have extensive experience with racing cats and tri's. I find it hard to believe that knowledge fails to flow through in hull design and production materials and techniques. Refering here to R & C, lagoon and FP here.

Yes those same production builders also use interior designers for cosmetics.
I agree that the knowledge flows through, but I think it is applied more judiciously. I've read (though won't necessarily produce an example at this instant) that monohull designs often adopt racing styles and devices which are not necessarily appropriate for the intended use of that boat - specifically cruising boats.

As an example on a cat, however, cruising cats have intentionally shortened masts and widened hulls. Now, if someone comes up with a simple hull tweak that will slight improve it's efficiency, then they incorporate that if they can. But they won't compromise the overall design of the catamaran to install a performance enhancement that doesn't make sense to the overall mission of the boat.

So the knowledge does trickle down, but I think it is more likely to be innovations around strength, weight, etc than it is to be around speed or agility - compared to monohull designs, which IMO are more likely adopt any kind of performance enhancement, even if it is detrimental to the livability of the design.

Generalities all - just conversation really...
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Old 26-11-2012, 17:56   #109
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Not many, but some are: A Gunboat is slow compared to this cruiser

So you don't think technology "trickles down" from race boats to cruising boats?

Never at any stage claimed my boat was faster than a 747.

Just pointed out that your "Its a sail boat and therefore, inferior in speed to anything that is engine propelled." generalisation was incorrect.

Seems people with "fast" boats will talk about passage speed, people with slow boats will say it doesn't matter.
Thank you so much for giving me irrefutable proof for an opinion I shared on another forum. Sincerely, thanks!

Carry on...
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Old 26-11-2012, 18:10   #110
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Re: Passage Speed

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In a displacement hull (ie mono) maximum speed is a function of waterline length.

The formula, as I recall, is 1.5 times the square root of the waterline length.

It is possible to exceed this speed while surfing, but maintaining surfing depends on conditions that would not be consistent over a long passage.

Sail on, sailor!

Bill
actually it is 1.3 square root of wl.
most accurate on larger or heavier boots
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Old 26-11-2012, 19:17   #111
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Re: Passage Speed

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Seems people with "fast" boats will talk about passage speed, people with slow boats will say it doesn't matter.
Yes. Funny.

I'll never forget helping a buddy deliver a 100' motor yacht from San Diego to San Francisco. We kept the speed "down" to 11.5 knots because that was what they calculated to be the most efficient speed for that passage. The captain and the owner hated going that slow, but to me it was breathtaking to be zooming up the coast that fast.

High fives all around when we finally made port because we'd only consumed 1,800 gallons of diesel. I guess that made it worth going so slow.
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Old 26-11-2012, 19:26   #112
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Re: Passage Speed

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Totally Bitchen ride!! Just wow!
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Old 27-11-2012, 02:39   #113
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
Thank you so much for giving me irrefutable proof for an opinion I shared on another forum. Sincerely, thanks!

Carry on...
I guess this post confirms some of my thoughts too.
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Old 27-11-2012, 02:41   #114
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Re: Passage Speed

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Yes. Funny.

I'll never forget helping a buddy deliver a 100' motor yacht from San Diego to San Francisco. We kept the speed "down" to 11.5 knots because that was what they calculated to be the most efficient speed for that passage. The captain and the owner hated going that slow, but to me it was breathtaking to be zooming up the coast that fast.

High fives all around when we finally made port because we'd only consumed 1,800 gallons of diesel. I guess that made it worth going so slow.
I'll be honest here: I have absolutely no idea what relevence this has to the topic: The passage speeds of multihull sailboats.
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Old 27-11-2012, 08:58   #115
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I'll be honest here: I have absolutely no idea what relevence this has to the topic: The passage speeds of multihull sailboats.
Perceptions of speed are relative, and the value of speed varies depending on the person and his/her application?

That's what I got.
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Old 27-11-2012, 09:11   #116
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I'll be honest here: I have absolutely no idea what relevence this has to the topic: The passage speeds of multihull sailboats.
The OP wants an 11 knot passage speed. Take another look at Post #1. No one has yet told him, at least directly, that in the boats he's looking at he's not going to get it. Or did I miss something?

Go back and run the numbers you posted in #102. Average passage speed for whatever 44' cruising cat you're sailing is 7.3 knots over the course of those four passages. Sounds honest, especially since the longer passage is the lowest average speed. That's how the real world works.

The honest answer for the OP is that if he wants an 11 knot passage speed, he's gonna have to look at different boats.

It's just math.
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Old 27-11-2012, 09:29   #117
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
I find it hilarious that there is even a discussion which includes both speed and sail boats. Its a sail boat and therefore, inferior in speed to anything that is engine propelled. Want a fast passage? Fly British Air.

I want a boat that is comfortable, forgiving of my mistakes and fun to sail. Anything else is gravy.
what she said.
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Old 27-11-2012, 12:27   #118
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Re: Passage Speed

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The OP wants an 11 knot passage speed. Take another look at Post #1. No one has yet told him, at least directly, that in the boats he's looking at he's not going to get it. Or did I miss something?

Go back and run the numbers you posted in #102. Average passage speed for whatever 44' cruising cat you're sailing is 7.3 knots over the course of those four passages. Sounds honest, especially since the longer passage is the lowest average speed. That's how the real world works.

The honest answer for the OP is that if he wants an 11 knot passage speed, he's gonna have to look at different boats.

It's just math.
Guess I didn't read the OP that way. Of course the claimed 11 knot average for the Sunfast was ridiculous and misleading. But I didn't read the OP as wanting an 11 knot average, just information.
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Old 27-11-2012, 13:09   #119
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Guess I didn't read the OP that way. Of course the claimed 11 knot average for the Sunfast was ridiculous and misleading. But I didn't read the OP as wanting an 11 knot average, just information.
I tink I told him my Sun Fast 40.3 ain't gonna do average 11 knots. No way. We did around 9 knots this summer for few hours, but wind was blowing force 8 the one day and. Force 7 the next.


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Old 27-11-2012, 13:55   #120
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Re: Passage Speed

I think speed in the racing context has a clear meaning. But in the cruising one ????

Why buy a cruising boat and hurry? Is this not contradictory?

BTW You want speed you buy the bigger (or lighter boat). But only with the bigger one you can get both speed and comfort. (For the less speculative, cruising type: go get a big one.)

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