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Old 23-11-2012, 20:09   #91
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Re: Passage Speed

I dont get obsessive about it. I provision for 100 miles a day and then add some extra. If I get more than that well that is a bonus. Any passage where I get there before the water and food run out is good.
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Old 23-11-2012, 20:19   #92
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
aaaaah, capt jeffrey--but that is the fun of it all---catching fishies and watching for weather and sailing in the seasons not usually associated with bad weather....being ready for the big winds that come on you here off west coast mexico and central america....and watching tortoises sunning and flying fishies sailing just above the seas..
Of course you are correct Zee. Nothing beats a 14 day passage to somewhere. Mahi Mahi and a Yellow Fin/Tail Tuna or three...fish that fly????? sure......
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Old 25-11-2012, 11:30   #93
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Race results are sometimes misleading, but at least you Know all boats are racing, unlike the Carrib 150 thingy where some boats are motoring. I would have thought a Dragon Fly 35 should be as quick/nearly as quick as a corsair 32R (no such thing by the way - presume it was either a Farrier 32 or a corsair 31 and probably an F32). Still - talent and skill etc.

What design was the Schionning?
I disagree. A rally is a better measure of a cruising boat because of the varied conditions and the way the boat is being sailed -- certainly the latter, if not both, are more realistic. In my opinion, race results, regardless of the boat, don't mean much in the real world. After all, very few of us have any intention of racing around the world. To the extent that the boat is motored, on average, that's pretty realistic, too. The auxillary on my boat comes on when the point of sail is just too much work and/or progress is too slow. In other worlds, that's the real world creeping into the passage math.
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Old 25-11-2012, 11:57   #94
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by vjmehra View Post
1st: Tri
2nd: Cat
3rd: Mono
This depends on design. A sleek large sail mono will out distance a fat, comfortable cat - which most modern cats are designed to be. But if you take into account similar size and design features, your order is basically true.

Most tris are designed for speed
Most cats are designed for comfort at anchor and at sea
Monos come in a very wide array of designs, but very frequently are optimized for racing type conditions since the industry is strongly influenced by racing design.
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Old 25-11-2012, 16:31   #95
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Re: Passage Speed

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I disagree. A rally is a better measure of a cruising boat because of the varied conditions and the way the boat is being sailed -- certainly the latter, if not both, are more realistic. In my opinion, race results, regardless of the boat, don't mean much in the real world. After all, very few of us have any intention of racing around the world. To the extent that the boat is motored, on average, that's pretty realistic, too. The auxillary on my boat comes on when the point of sail is just too much work and/or progress is too slow. In other worlds, that's the real world creeping into the passage math.
Im not sure you can rely much on rally results either as engine hours are honour based so you cant be too sure how respective finishers really stack up for sailing alone.

(Just have a look at the slowest cats post in relation to the 2011 ARC where 2 lagoons beat a catana 47 into the the top 2 for multis - they were accused of dishonesty in engine hours!)
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Old 26-11-2012, 04:44   #96
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Re: Passage Speed

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Im not sure you can rely much on rally results either as engine hours are honour based so you cant be too sure how respective finishers really stack up for sailing alone.

(Just have a look at the slowest cats post in relation to the 2011 ARC where 2 lagoons beat a catana 47 into the the top 2 for multis - they were accused of dishonesty in engine hours!)
This is one way to see this. But think of it and since the cruising sailor (especially the rally one) tends to use the engine so much, then I would say it is still a good measure of their rally performance (a.k.a. motor-sailing performance).

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Old 26-11-2012, 06:25   #97
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by Barra View Post
Im not sure you can rely much on rally results either as engine hours are honour based so you cant be too sure how respective finishers really stack up for sailing alone.

(Just have a look at the slowest cats post in relation to the 2011 ARC where 2 lagoons beat a catana 47 into the the top 2 for multis - they were accused of dishonesty in engine hours!)
Well, it may not be scientific, but it's still more realistic than a race, IMHO.

I have raced and I have cruised, so I do know the difference. No average couple out cruising is paying attention to sail trim and actively steering the way that a fully-crewed or even double-handed race boat is. I don't think how fast you can race has much bearing on how fast you will cruise. Sure, faster boats will probably cruise a bit faster, but on a long passage, all those other factors go a long way toward leveling the playing field.
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Old 26-11-2012, 11:13   #98
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Re: Passage Speed

I did the Carib 1500 a few years ago and averaged around 5 and a half knots. As for lying about motoring time, who even cares? It wasnt a race. We didnt even keep track though I do remember that we motored for around 3-4 hours at one point and then the last 8 hours when we realized we could make it to customs before they closed if we kept our speed up. But why anyone would lie about it is beyond me. The goal was to get there as quickly as possible without breaking anything or being massively uncomfortable. I would be surprised if the rally organizers even asked how much anyone motored outside of the racing divisions.

So yes, my passage time in the rally is an excellent guide to passage times generally - bearing in mind of course that the weather is always different and on this passage we had fairly high winds for the most part (in the 20's, sometimes, 30's) and so had a fast trip.
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Old 26-11-2012, 11:38   #99
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Re: Passage Speed

I find it hilarious that there is even a discussion which includes both speed and sail boats. Its a sail boat and therefore, inferior in speed to anything that is engine propelled. Want a fast passage? Fly British Air.

I want a boat that is comfortable, forgiving of my mistakes and fun to sail. Anything else is gravy.
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Old 26-11-2012, 12:25   #100
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by sck5 View Post
I did the Carib 1500 a few years ago and averaged around 5 and a half knots. As for lying about motoring time, who even cares? It wasnt a race. We didnt even keep track though I do remember that we motored for around 3-4 hours at one point and then the last 8 hours when we realized we could make it to customs before they closed if we kept our speed up. But why anyone would lie about it is beyond me. The goal was to get there as quickly as possible without breaking anything or being massively uncomfortable. I would be surprised if the rally organizers even asked how much anyone motored outside of the racing divisions.

So yes, my passage time in the rally is an excellent guide to passage times generally - bearing in mind of course that the weather is always different and on this passage we had fairly high winds for the most part (in the 20's, sometimes, 30's) and so had a fast trip.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
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Old 26-11-2012, 12:34   #101
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Re: Passage Speed

The other point on the motoring thing is, of course, that displacement hulls are going to top out at mathematical hull speed pretty much regardless. Most sailors I know, however, find the sweet spot for fuel economy/engine strain that is a fair bit less than max rpms anyway. I can't think of anyone who would throttle up to make hull speed on a long passage. So, not much in the way of seriptitious gains there. Meanwhile, multis in general don't point as well, so at least on a beat they are likely to fire up the iron genny sooner than the monos. I haven't sailed one of these rallies myself, but I'd need some convincing to think motoring hours - reported or not - are much more than a wash.
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Old 26-11-2012, 13:10   #102
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Re: Passage Speed

Some of our passages - Raby Bay to Huon reef - 850 miles, mostly in 30 - 40 knot wind, average 6.8 knots.

Luganville to Huon reef - 290 miles, average 8.2 knots. Breeze was around 12-15 knots the whole way.

Huon reef to Chesterfield reef, 290 miles, average 7.5 knots mostly light breezes, but for the last 120 miles we had 15-20 knots - did the last 120 miles in 10 hours.

Chesterfield reef - Bundaberg, 450 miles, average 7.7 knots. Mix of very light and some 15-20 knot breeze.

Coastal cruising we routinely sail 100 miles in daylight. Wide Bay bar to Moreton bay, Gold coast seaway to Iluka...

We prefer crossing bars or entering and leaving reef anchorages in daylight.

We're cruising, not racing, I do all the sail handling, always reduce sail at dusk, don't sail the boat hard. Autopilot steers 99.9% of the time.
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Old 26-11-2012, 13:15   #103
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Re: Passage Speed

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Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
Its a sail boat and therefore, inferior in speed to anything that is engine propelled.
Plenty of engine driven boats won't keep up with this sailboat.



And even our boat can sail much faster than it can motor.
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Old 26-11-2012, 14:19   #104
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Re: Passage Speed

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Plenty of engine driven boats won't keep up with this sailboat.



And even our boat can sail much faster than it can motor.
And how many cruisers are tooling around on a similar boat?
Your boat can not sail faster than even an aging 747. :lol
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Old 26-11-2012, 14:33   #105
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Re: Passage Speed

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And how many cruisers are tooling around on a similar boat?
Your boat can not sail faster than even an aging 747. :lol
Not many, but some are: A Gunboat is slow compared to this cruiser

So you don't think technology "trickles down" from race boats to cruising boats?

Never at any stage claimed my boat was faster than a 747.

Just pointed out that your "Its a sail boat and therefore, inferior in speed to anything that is engine propelled." generalisation was incorrect.

Seems people with "fast" boats will talk about passage speed, people with slow boats will say it doesn't matter.
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