Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-11-2012, 06:44   #46
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Among the boats already finished, both boats over 6kt were monohulls (Moody54 and Oyster 46), 2 of the 6 boats under 5kt were multis, a Lagoon42 and an Outremer.
This posts would get a lot of bashing at SA for even sorta implying a Lagoon and an Outremer are in the same class speed wise. Not to say Lagoons are not popular charter cats, but how often do you see an Outremer offered for charter.

Not sure about the Lagoon in the race, but most of the charter ones have four heads which can really weight a boat down. Not to mention Lagoons are often thought to be under canvassed because the peeps who charter them may not be the most experienced sailors.

That being said, as I posted earlier I would bet Dennis Connor on a Lagoon would easily beat me on an Outremer.
__________________

__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 09:17   #47
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
This posts would get a lot of bashing at SA for even sorta implying a Lagoon and an Outremer are in the same class speed wise. Not to say Lagoons are not popular charter cats, but how often do you see an Outremer offered for charter.

Not sure about the Lagoon in the race, but most of the charter ones have four heads which can really weight a boat down. Not to mention Lagoons are often thought to be under canvassed because the peeps who charter them may not be the most experienced sailors.

That being said, as I posted earlier I would bet Dennis Connor on a Lagoon would easily beat me on an Outremer.
Absolutely. But the average cruising couple is probably closer to you (and me) than to Connor on a sliding scale. And, especially so after a few days on the water, pulling rotating 4-hour shifts. That's why in my opinion, you compare apples to apples with amahs instead of apples to Formula race cars.
__________________

__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 12:00   #48
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by vjmehra View Post

My plan is to buy something to mess around on initially, say £5k, just to learn the basics, or possibly just charter more (cost will be about the same over the course of 1 year, for chartering a few times vs buying for 5k +fees, maintenance and then selling on fairly quickly), then get something a bit more suited to my needs in due course.
folks, folks, just a reality check here , the OP wants to spend money that would just about buy a good bath...

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 12:09   #49
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,600
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
This posts would get a lot of bashing at SA for even sorta implying a Lagoon and an Outremer are in the same class speed wise.
Yes, well the 'A' of 'SA' is for anarchy so that is to be expected.

Whereas here we are on a 'forum' where a little more moderation is to be expected lest the moderators come and 'moderate' you.
__________________
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
SailboatData
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 12:29   #50
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 31
Re: Passage Speed

No...I want to buy a bath to play around with....for a few months/a year...with a view to buying something a bit more performance cruising orientated once I have a bit more experience.
__________________
vjmehra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 13:35   #51
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I disagree in cruising trim multi's are not going to be doing significantly better than a monohull which means they really don't have the boat speed to outrun storms. Unless we are talking about 60' boats, of course.
I disagree. We almost always do significantly better than monohulls of similar length, or even boats considerably longer. On a recent 800 mile passage we arrived nearly 24 hours before the first monohull making the same passage.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 13:42   #52
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,600
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I disagree. We almost always do significantly better than monohulls of similar length, or even boats considerably longer. On a recent 800 mile passage we arrived nearly 24 hours before the first monohull making the same passage.

OK, that's, you. How much better do most cat cruisers do than comparable mono's? Rally results are probably the best indicator of this.
__________________
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
SailboatData
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 14:20   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
OK, that's, you. How much better do most cat cruisers do than comparable mono's? Rally results are probably the best indicator of this.

What you are saying is that the skipper means a lot. I would suggest in many of rallys you have inexperienced crews travelling for the support rather than to race and it means little. thus the Outremer.

I would expect that 44c woud not have been able to slow his boat down enough to keep with the monos in that trip.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 14:38   #54
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
OK, that's, you. How much better do most cat cruisers do than comparable mono's? Rally results are probably the best indicator of this.
We WERE in a rally! But rallys aren't races. So rally results?

There were in fact 3 cats and 5 mono's in the rally. 2 cats and one mono arrived the same day, but the mono (an X442, so not a slow cruiser) had left from Mooloolabah, not Raby Bay, so sailed about 60 miles less distance.

The other cat and the rest of the mono's arrived the following day.

And most of the trip conditions didn't suit fast sailing for us - we had 30+ knot winds for all but the first day, so we slowed down to around 6 knots for comfort's sake. We certainly weren't racing.

Speaking of comfort - it was interesting to compare notes with the other sailors. We discoverd that everyone on the mono's had spent days soaked to the skin. On the cats we didn't even put on our wet weather gear. Never got wet at all.

The skipper of one mono had a huge bruise from his backside to his ankle. All the mono sailors had bumps and bruises. There was even talk of a "Compare bruises" competition, until the guy with the full leg bruise showed his. My wife chimed in with a cracked fingernail, but wasn't in the running.

So we were faster, more comfortable, and spent an extra night at anchor, while the rest were out there in 30+ knots.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 15:27   #55
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Yes, well the 'A' of 'SA' is for anarchy so that is to be expected.

Whereas here we are on a 'forum' where a little more moderation is to be expected lest the moderators come and 'moderate' you.
Sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to get across in my post. Even at CF a lot of peeps would agree that comparing a Lagoon to an Outremer would raise eyebrows, especially multihull eyebrows.

There is also an issue of how folks on a Lagoon view sailing compared to how folks on an Outremer view sailing. Lagoons are, at least according to some, built for the charter market; four heads, under canvassed, and condomaran style wide hulls. Outremers are build more for private owners with more attention to performance as opposed to being often sailed by charter folks. Both boats are build to a purpose, my point was both boats are build to a different purpose.
__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 16:11   #56
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,084
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I disagree. We almost always do significantly better than monohulls of similar length, or even boats considerably longer. On a recent 800 mile passage we arrived nearly 24 hours before the first monohull making the same passage.
Your recent experience was also validated in the Louisiades Rally with relative performances of cats and monos across a range of boat types.
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 16:53   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I disagree. We almost always do significantly better than monohulls of similar length, or even boats considerably longer. On a recent 800 mile passage we arrived nearly 24 hours before the first monohull making the same passage.
Remarkable ... but shouldn't a 44 foot cat be compared to something like a 70 to 88 foot monohull? Ya know, equal bulk, cost, maintenance, dockage, etc. That 88 footer might be pretty comfortable in a seaway, too....
__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 17:02   #58
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,600
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to get across in my post. Even at CF a lot of peeps would agree that comparing a Lagoon to an Outremer would raise eyebrows, especially multihull eyebrows.

There is also an issue of how folks on a Lagoon view sailing compared to how folks on an Outremer view sailing. Lagoons are, at least according to some, built for the charter market; four heads, under canvassed, and condomaran style wide hulls. Outremers are build more for private owners with more attention to performance as opposed to being often sailed by charter folks. Both boats are build to a purpose, my point was both boats are build to a different purpose.
I was using your post as a springboard to make a funny about SA & CF with no actual connection to the topic of this thread.
__________________
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
SailboatData
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 17:42   #59
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,084
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
Remarkable ... but shouldn't a 44 foot cat be compared to something like a 70 to 88 foot monohull? Ya know, equal bulk, cost, maintenance, dockage, etc. That 88 footer might be pretty comfortable in a seaway, too....
A search of the broker sites in Australia suggests that you cant get a 75 foot mono under 20 years old for less than 7 figures (unless its a floating footpath or similar). Which is probably twice as much as you would pay for for custom built version of 44c boat. At least. A check of marina berths in my area indicates that that (in the largest boat harbour in Australia) there are very few berths for a 75 footer and that a 13.5 metre multi berth costs about the same as a 17 metre mono (55ft). As for maintenance I suspect he would spend less a year on total maintenance than a 75ft mono would spend on his engine.

44Cs boat is a sensible well thought out well sailed cruising boat.
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2012, 17:47   #60
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Passage Speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post
Remarkable ... but shouldn't a 44 foot cat be compared to something like a 70 to 88 foot monohull? Ya know, equal bulk, cost, maintenance, dockage, etc. That 88 footer might be pretty comfortable in a seaway, too....
LOL!!
__________________

__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
passage

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.