Parasailor Trimming

[monte]

Hi, I'm interested if anyone has any tips for trimming parasailors on a cat. Do you keep both sheets and guys taught on both sides?
I've seen some examples where they use the windward guy and leeward sheet and leave the windward sheet loose and leeward guy loose but I can't see any Benifit to that. Also, the lower telltales are supposed to run up toward the wing but mine tend to hang down. Maybe just not enough wind, but how would you trim it if this was the case? Maybe ease the guys and trim the sheets back till the foot us close to the forestay?
Thanks if anyone has any tips
Monte

[Rubikoop]

Recently did a 3000 mile crossing and flew the PS 2/3 of the trip on a 60' cat. Rarely did we tension both sheets and guys at the same time. Usually had one sheet and one guy carrying the load. When wind was at or near 180 with 8'-12' seas hitting port aft we tensioned everything to try and limit the swaying action of the sail to keep it full more of the time. If you are having problems with lower telltales, ease whatever sheets and guys you have to give the sail more of a belly. It's not cut to be run flat at all and over trimming can cause flow problems with telltales. Whenever we had issues it was almost always from over trimming. When in doubt, let it out!!! I come from a racing background with conventional spinnakers and assyms. I was initially dubious of flying the PS at night with just one on watch. It is an awesome sail for long distances needing little attention.


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[monte]

Thanks mate. Any reason you just had one sheet and one guy? It seems to sit more stable with the lazy sheet and guy trimmed up as well. Also, do you think loosening the sheets and guys allows more belly? From what I saw it lets it fly higher and further forward and seemed like the angle sail below the wing becomes more vertical, inhibiting the upward airflow. Its hard to be sure when its up and out there..I'll try ease some more and see how it flys.

[Rubikoop]

We used one sheet and one guy most of the time because that gave us the best shape, caused all the tell tales to fly and gave the best boat speed.

Having never flown a PS on any other boat, I can only tell you what worked for us. Between your boat and what I was on there are many variables such as: mast height, hull width, block locations on deck and possibly a different sized sail. The boat was extremely heavy and stocked up for a circumnavigation. What worked for us may not work for you.

We carried the sail pretty high off the deck, more than I would with a typical spinnaker. We also flew the sail in winds that rarely were below 15 apparent and were more like 25
apparent. What wind speeds and angles have you been working with?


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[django37]

Hi Monte,


Sailed the Caledonian together with Careka. We used the 47 m2 gennaker + main and tacked downwind. where Careka used his 105 m2 PS: Blog here: Lagoon 380 Careka: 10.7.2014 Videre til Fort Augustus We were slightly faster - but our L380 is also lighter (loaded) than Careka.

[monte]

Thanks guys. Our sailing so far has been as per below

True Wind
10k 160 degrees 5 k
13k 150 deg 5.5
15k 160 degrees 6 k DDW 5 k
17.5k 160 degrees 6.5 k
20k 160 degrees 7k

We havent had much more than 20 knots true, but I think the lower telltales started flying upward around 15 knots or so. I also noticed at 160 degrees they seem to fly sideways frum the luff to the leech, so maybe we need to trim on the sheet a bit more and ease the guy. I think it was getting pretty close to the tack touching the forestay though so maybe thats not possible, or maybe easing the sheet more will allow it to fly more forward...Nice pic of careka! NB, our parasailor is 125m2 on a Lagoon 400. The sock just reaches the trampoline when the halyard is raised. The next size up is 140m2 and would also have been OK, but we went for ease of handling over maximum speed.
It is very nice to use, great unobstructed views as it flys well above the horizon, self trims and needs very little input. Speeds are better than with main/jib and less wear and tear. So far so good...
We have lowered it in 20-25k without a problem and we eased the sheet as we hauled down the sock. I'm not sure if its best to ease the sheet or the guy so we will experiment some more. Its just the 2 of us on board, 3 if you count Balrog but he's not really up to helping with the parasailor

[Barra]

Hey Monte

Good to see you went the parasailor route mate. For short handed downwind cruising they are hard to beat IMHO. Unfortunately we didnt get too much downwind sailing this year in Greece (although last year in the Adriatic it was gold) so still tweaking but for what its worth -

I agree with Rubikoop - let it out. In hindsight we had ours sheeted on too hard to start with like you would a normal spinny but they want to sail a bit higher to get the best shape due to the wing.

My lower tell tails dont do much either below around 10 to 12 knots tws. Above that you can use the luff and leach tell tails to adjust the guy/sheet as needed to get these streaming vertically. The actual luff and leach dont tend to be as easy to read as on a normal sym spin as i guess the wing gets in the way so maybe it is easier to oversheet.

We messed around with different combos of the 4 lines and for most situations the windward guy and leeward sheet worked best. For DDW we used both guys especially if there was any swell about as that seems most stable but fly it higher than you would think makes sense and check your boatspeed. Even 5 degrees off DDW though and guy / sheet combo the best.

Have found this sail pretty good in gustier conditions too. The real plus is it self tends and seems a bit less prone to collapse as the apparent wind shifts around which is especially handy on cats as they accelerate on the gusts rather than roll.

On the take down sailing as a couple we ease the guy first and have had no issues in up to low 20s TWS. If we ease the sheet too soon the wing does sometimes tend to get caught on the feed back into the sock.

Back in Oz now and jealous your trip is continuing while I have to wait till next year for the Atlantic now. If you need short notice crew you know who to call!

cheers
Barra

[monte]

Hey Barra, thanks for the reply and details. I will definitely try your recommendations. I found it strange that it seems a bit slower DDW than a bit off the wind, considering the dynamics of it basically being a big kite pulling you downwind. I would have thought less hull resistance = more speed but it doesn't seem to be the case. I'll experiment a bit. Maybe tacking downwind, even 170 degree tacks would improve passage speeds. Keep in touch mate, come for a sail anytime you like. Hopefully we will be finding some waves along the way

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by Rubikoop

We carried the sail pretty high off the deck, more than I would with a typical spinnaker. We also flew the sail in winds that rarely were below 15 apparent and were more like 25
apparent.

25kn apparent ? That sounds a lot to me...

Fair winds,
henry

[Rubikoop]

Not my sail, not my boat, owner's decision. :-)
Yes, I agree that is more wind than I was comfortable with considering the material it's made from. We did a takedown just a little too late one day in over 30 apparent with a boat speed of 13kts and accellerating. Snuffer worked well and had it collapsed in less than a minute, still in in piece thank goodness!!


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[monte]

I'm hoping to leave it up in 25 apparent. 30...maybe wait and see on that one..

[Rubikoop]

I would discourage you from flying it in winds that high. At 30 app your boat speed is double digits making for a true wind of 40+. Get another smaller heavier spinn if you wish to fly in those conditions. We doused the PS and unfurled some genoa and still kept boat speed around 10kts which was actually more comfortable in the sea state we were in.


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[monte]

Thanks rubi. Ok I'll aim to pull the pin around 30K TWS and switch to genoa. Will probably take it down overnight if Its much over 20 TWS

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by monte

Hey Barra, -----. I found it strange that it seems a bit slower DDW than a bit off the wind, considering the dynamics of it basically being a big kite pulling you downwind. ---

It should not surprise you. On the risk of stating the obvious I will point that even normal symmetrical spinnaker, generates lift and is not being pushed from behind. That remembered and understood you will see racing boats jibing downwind with spinnakers instead of sailing directly downwind to the downwind mark.

[django37]

Here: Sailing downwind in Loch Ness: True Wind 10,7 knots at 160dgr true, boatspeed 6,1 knots. Mainsail + gennaker (47m2 = 505 sq ft). Gennaker tacked on windward bow.