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Old 04-04-2011, 14:06   #1
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PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

Okay, I know that this not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but I need help! I'm looking for a 35-40 foot cat with plenty of comfort and a narrow beam so I can get into a slip just about anywhere on the Chesapeake, which is what I need to do. Price up to $150k tops.

I know the Catalac 12 doesn't qualify on the narrow end but it's a sentimental choice.

Yes, I know none of them will stand your hair on end with speed, but which would be the best choice? I know Gemini is an option but I don't like the single-engine drive set-up and it's likely not as well built.

Any and all help and/or alternative suggestions welcome!


Jody in Annapolis
currently sailig an Albin Vega 27
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Old 04-04-2011, 15:40   #2
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

We've owned an 1999 EndeavourCat 36 for 5 years with no problems and we love the boat. She fits into every 15' slip we've found with a few inches to spare. This is a very stable well-built boat and the twin 29 HP engines enable easy manuevering. This boat has almost 7' of headroom in the galley and lot's of roomy feel throughout. Undersail, she's easily done 8-9 knots in the Gulf of Mexico - not exactly slow. We looked at the Gemini too but wanted the duel engines as we are two women sailors and wanted the added security of having the backup if one went out (it hasn't!) Also love the separate full shower adjacent to the head - I don't believe the Gemini had this. We wouldn't have anything but a cat, even though they are a little "boxy" on the water. The stability far makes up for that -- and besides, we don't want to spill our cocktails!!
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Old 04-04-2011, 17:07   #3
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

A prout or manta might fit your needs 35-39ft
older smaler cheaper/ newer bigger bigger bills
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Old 04-04-2011, 17:32   #4
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

Quote:
Originally Posted by limejucer View Post
A prout or manta might fit your needs 35-39ft
older smaler cheaper/ newer bigger bigger bills
Limejucer, I didn't quite get what you're saying. Please explain. Thanks.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:47   #5
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

Thanks for the good information "womensetsail"!

I probably shouldn't have thrown the Catalac into the mix because of the wide beam. This would also eliminate Prout and Manta (not to mention the price on the Manta).

Guess then it really comes down to a choice between Island Packet and Endeavour 34/36 for narrow-beam cats at less than $150,000.

Are there advantages or disadvantages between the two?

Am I missing something obvious?

Jody
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:12   #6
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

I guess it all depends on what you're looking for in features. I've never sailed a Packet but they look sleek on the water. The Endeavour is a little more boxey looking, but I think it has more room below. We really like the mainsail rigging on the Endeavour - where instead of a traveller on the stern, the boom lines and tackle are well above all heads. And the helm is portside on the Endeavour, not a center console. This enabled us to upgrade the electronics to big screen chartplotter without a problem. Also gives good visibilty from the helm for docking. We did pay more than $150,000 for ours though, back in '05. So you might want to reconsider a Gemini - a nice boat for the price range you're looking for.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:35   #7
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

You may already know this, but...

Bear in mind that heavy, narrower cats, with low wing clearence, huge cabins, and LOTS of accomodations for their size, are NOT blue water multihulls in the same catagory as the opposite extreems. They should be thought of as trawlers. We have friends who motored both sides of the Caribbean in a really top heavy Island Trader trawler. They succeeded at this by being VERY prudent about their course and what weather they let themselves get caught in. Even then, they had some very close calls!

Cats like the ones you mention would be OK for protected sailing in the Chesapeake, the ICW, or perhaps the Bahamas, but seaworthyness was NOT what these boats were designed for. Mark
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:10   #8
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

Let me jump in here. I do have a PC 35 for sale, so maybe I am a bit predjudiced, but my comments apply equally to the PC and EC.

Several years ago when I was researching the PC 35, I talked to the factory. They told me that during the production years, the PC 35 was fully compliant with the CE Class A, or all oceans class or whatever it was called then. The CE standard has since changed and no cat of 35' length qualifies.

The PC35 and the EC have a central pod or third hull, which greatly improves heavy weather ability. When large cats capsize in heavy seas, they generally do so by the leeward hull diging in to a huge wave and the boat essentially flips over that dug in hull. The pod on the PC and EC adds sufficient bouyancy that this is unlikely to happen.

FWIW, I like CE don't believe that any 35' cat is safe for an extended blue water passage where you have to be prepared for any storm that comes your way. But to say that one is marginal for the Bahamas is way, way too conservative. I would not hesitate to take my boat anywhere where I could get to a safe harbor within 48 hours. It is the 20+ foot seas that scare me in any cat of this size.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:41   #9
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

Many small cats and tris ARE solid blue water boats! There have been countless circumnavigations in them, including one in a sistership to our 34'er that went around by the way of Cape Horn. These small "blue water boats" are the polar opposite of boats like yours. They have 4X the wing clearence, are wider for their length, half the weight and accomodations, full visibility forward, and can be driven to windward in 40 knots of wind & violent seas. (I have done it many times).

I wasn't implying that the narrow, low wing clearence, super commodius boats like yours don't have their niche. They are mighty comfortable when not under way, but they are not blue water boats capable of being driven hard to windward in a gale, or across oceans. They should be sailed the way one motors a fly bridge trawler. Both can still "do it", but to remain alive, they should do it much differently from blue water boats.

We all have to accept the limitations of our boats for what they are. Our single skin boat is not a good marina boat, and can't comfortably accomodate 6 people over for dinner. We also have a hard time finding dockage & a travel lift for our 21' beam.

I just think that for someone to make an informed decision, it is useful to consider what the boat was designed to do. In the case of ALL low wing clearence, high center of gravity, "accomodations galore" multihulls, seawothyyness was not high on the list. You can't have it all. You can still go coastal cruising or island hop, but must be MUCH more vigilant of bad weather than the other type. It isn't a matter of opinion... it's physics. It's the law.

Mark
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Old 06-04-2011, 05:21   #10
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

Ty
My reply was a prout might do the job. The older snowgoose is around 15 ft beam.
and costs less. Apparently the manta is two beamy I dont know what will fit in the Chesapeake.
only a short Thought thrown in

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Old 06-04-2011, 05:54   #11
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

It strikes me that we have managed to get into issues that just don't arise from the original post. There was no talk of offshore passages - simply a need for a cat with narrow beam for use in the Chesepeake. If that is the intended use, then any of the boats that Jody has inquired about would seem to fit the bill.

Jody, it you were prepared to consider the Gemini (and you should - decent performance, accomodation and resale - albeit with some compromises to solidity), then you may also wish to consider the PDQ 32 and Tomcat 9.7. No, the accomodation will not be as great as in the Packetcat or Endeavourcat, but the performance will be much better. While the Packetcat may still be too new to judge in terms of durability, it seems very well built; and certainly, the PDQ has a well-deserved reputation for quality. As I recall the beam on both is 16 feet so they are not much wider than the boats you have been considering.

Good luck in your search!

Brad
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Old 06-04-2011, 06:41   #12
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

I 100% agree with mark on the seaworthiness (or lack thereof) of the condomarans, they do fill a niche as sailing houseboats quite nicely. While i dont have any personal experience with either of the boats suggested i did know a couple who owned an endeavor cat for a while as a liveaboard, but couldnt live with the lack of sailing ability,they both had a background club racing monohulls though so had some frame of reference. Obviously the Gemini would be a better choice if sailing were to be a significant part of the equation. Another thought may be the Victory 35, i believe thy were fairly narrow beam but maybe not narrow enough.
Steve.
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:03   #13
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

I would have to agree with most of what Mark says but the Prout fits into the narrow beam, heavy, low bridgedeck type cat and they have more blue water miles on them than any other multihull built.
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Old 06-04-2011, 15:01   #14
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

Thank you. Good suggestions all—though the term "condomarans" is pretty wince-inducing, so I'll just think of it as the corner office, if you don't mind, which is rather the point, anyway. Meanwhile, I'll look at PDQ 32, Victory 35 and Tomcat 9.7. I figure it's gonna be good no matter what it turns out to be because it will mean spending a lot more time on a boat!
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Old 25-04-2011, 09:36   #15
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Re: PacketCat v. EndeavourCat v. Catalac 12M

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
You may already know this, but...

Bear in mind that heavy, narrower cats, with low wing clearence, huge cabins, and LOTS of accomodations for their size, are NOT blue water multihulls in the same catagory as the opposite extreems. They should be thought of as trawlers. .........
What an interesting post. How many Catalac 12M's have you made passages on? I think you probably should google "Queen's Birthday Storm"
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