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Old 02-08-2008, 18:42   #1
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ownership cost vs size

Hello:
My wife and I currently own a 36 foot monohull, we are trying to sell it and do some other things in preperation to buy a catamaran. We had thought that it would be much more expensive to own a larger catamaran, but that is an unproven assumption, and would like some advise.
If you own a boat in the 40 to 55 foot range, please chime in, how much difference would 8 feet make on the maintenance cost of the boat? and how much difference will there be as a result of the age of the boat? For that matter for cats, once you have to pay for a double wide slip if you keep it in a marina, how much does length matter? Once you have to have a wide travel lift, how much difference is a few more feet on hauling and storing a boat?
A few more difficult questions, we hope to do some serious traveling, and I have been told that you can not anchor in most European ports, how much will size matter in the cost of visiting Europe? How hard will we get hit for the extra beam of a catamaran in Europe?
Does anyone have any information on theft and piracy, will a larger boat make someone look enough richer to attract unwanted attention?
We plan on cruising full time after we purchase our next boat. We like to sail, and do not like to motor. We enjoy the added privacy of anchoring out, and plan on doing that all most all the time at least in the USA. We do all our own work on boats, from fiberglass to electrical, I need to know how to do it, and need to know it is correct, so we generally do it all ourselves. We will have the same ammeneties on a boat regardless of size. We will want 2 heads, A/C in two compartments, W/D, etc. We use very good bottom paint and a lot of it so that our boat could last two or may be three years between haul outs.
A friend told me that the cost of maintaining a boat went up as the square of its length, and I had believed him, but when thinking about my boat, I can not think of much that would have been cheaper if the boat had been eight feet shorter. Haul outs and storage would have been cheaper, it would have taken half a gallon less paint every two years, and I might have saved 5 gallons of diesel a year, but we sailed, that is what the boat is made to do.
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Old 02-08-2008, 22:41   #2
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These kinds of questions always frustrate me a bit in trying to give a decent answer.

It is like asking, how much does it cost to make dinner?

So much is based on the chosen ingredients that the costs can vary greatly.

Obviously the labour costs will go up proportionally to the square footage that needs to be maintained, but if you have a simple big boat and a simple small boat, then equipment replacement costs are just a matter of the next size up which averages about 10% (guestimate!)

Shipbuilders tend to influence their quote on building a new ship based on tonnage as they figure the weight of all the standard equipment will dictate the cost of installation.

You could modify that thought and compare the maintenance costs with the tonnage of comparable sized and built cats (ie…..35ft vs 45ft.. to give you a reasonable factor for operating costs, excluding dockage)

Just a thought!
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Old 02-08-2008, 22:59   #3
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re Pelagic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
These kinds of questions always frustrate me a bit in trying to give a decent answer.

It is like asking, how much does it cost to make dinner?

So much is based on the chosen ingredients that the costs can vary greatly.

Obviously the labour costs will go up proportionally to the square footage that needs to be maintained, but if you have a simple big boat and a simple small boat, then equipment replacement costs are just a matter of the next size up which averages about 10% (guestimate!)

Shipbuilders tend to influence their quote on building a new ship based on tonnage as they figure the weight of all the standard equipment will dictate the cost of installation.

You could modify that thought and compare the maintenance costs with the tonnage of comparable sized and built cats (ie…..35ft vs 45ft.. to give you a reasonable factor for operating costs, excluding dockage)

Just a thought!
Hello Pelagic:
what really got me thinking is when I looked up the sail area and weight of my 36 foot boat and compared it to a 42 or 50 foot cat. Some of the 50 foot cats are only 30% heavier than my monohul, and less than 50% additional sail area. My 36 is an early 70s model, and when I bought it, the work that needed done was substantial. (the surveyer gave it a clean bill of health). Should I be thinking that maintaining a 50 foot cat will cost well under twice what it cost to maintain my old boat?
Thanks for the advise.
decktapper
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Old 03-08-2008, 00:29   #4
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I think my formula for percentage increase in displacement would only work with similar designs...ie 40ft cat versus 50 ft cat

Perhaps cat owners could verify that

You can't compare apples with oranges
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:55   #5
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The answer to this is simple. Find people who have owned the sized and similarly configured cat that you want to by and ask THEM and only them what their maintanence costs were over X years and make sure the age of the boat is taken into consideration.

More gear, more maintenance and expense. Bigger boats the gear ALSO costs more.

Someone can buy a boat in good shape, use it little and have very few expenses and someone else can buy the same hull trick it out, sail it like crazy and have mucho expenses. Same boat, same time frame way different results.

Compare apples to apples.
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:41   #6
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In Europe when going into a harbour with a catamaran you pay 25 to 50 % extra compared with the same length mono hull, all other costs are about the same besides that you have 2 engines to maintain .
Living space wise a 40 ft cat will give you the same as a 50 to 55 ft monohull so when comparing cost per squire meter or feet usable space your actual cost will probably lower with a catamaran.
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:01   #7
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Just to follow on from what Gideon has just said we have been getting quotes from Marinas in the Canaries, Madeira and some in the Med and have found most now charge based per square metre. On our boat we will be charged for 14.2 x 7.6 = 108m2 and I can tell you now it's not cheap. For one night anywhere from €35 to €44 Euro with discounts for stays longer than 1 month less 10%, 3 months less 20%.
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:18   #8
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An A very nice place to stay for longer periods is Pavoa de Varzim a very nice harbour close to Porto and a monhtly charge of only 200 Euro for a cat of 45 ft lenght
For longer periods all rates are negotiable.


Greetings
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:32   #9
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Pelagic is absolutely right, you cant determine costs with any kind of real precision.

But if you want a real rough rule of thumb. Doubling the length of a boat, cubes its cost because you are effectively cubing its weight which means cubing the materials it took to make that boat. For every unit of length for a monohull, figure very roughly 150% of that for a multihull. With a multihull, you are talking two hulls plus a cabin mounted above the two hulls plus a second propulsion engine plus a little stouter mast and rigging to compensate for the higher wind loading caused by the higher righting moment. A catamaran is actually a good deal in that respect.

Some marinas, for the longer vessels, will charge a higher per foot cost. I guess they figure the guys with the larger boats are all billionaires.

You do the math.
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:07   #10
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I have yet been charged more for a my cat than a monohull. That is all the way from St. Maarten to northern Florida. We RARELY take a slip while travelling, but sometimes it eases meeting family & friends.

I have been lucky in maintainance. The usual oil & filter changes for the motors. A set of injectors for one side. My only real expense has been changing the look of the colors. Including paint, and canvas has all been changed.

If you buy a boat that is worn then there will be cost. I was lucky the P.O. was very attentive to the upkeep of the boat. His taste in colors was definatley not mine!

Oh yes I have spent a small fortune on my props, but that is in several threads about SD20's losing props........LOLOLOLOL
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:27   #11
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Look, cats ar now measured in the med by the m2 in general. That brings the price up and i cab tell you, 35 euro per night than is V E R Y cheap. More likely think about double or triple that amount for marina's. On the other hand, anchoring is possible in the east med and greece is still cheap in the harbours.
For the rest, big boat, small boat, they all need work and I think there the price difference is relatively small compared to the amount of space you gain.
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