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Old 27-07-2018, 19:56   #1
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overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

Hi all.

i've been scouring the net a bit and am seeings some hurricane damaged catamarans comming up at what seems to me to be outrageous prices ranging from 60-150k usd.
i think i would enjoy rebuilding a Cat but the pricing just doesnt make sense.
example

Lagoon 380 prices between 200-300k for non storm damaged


theres one for 100k.
to properly repair this boat i would expect.


15-20k transport

60-80k rigging and sails
40-50k for mechanical (new engines and genset)

20k atleast for replacing electrical

10k for new electronics
10-100k for glasswork and woodwork (who the hell knows)
15k for new cushions


lowballing $170k in repairs total of $270 and you still have a storm damaged cat that noone will ever want to buy. i know many of these repairs can be done much cheaper if you cut corners or with my estimates in the end you would basically have the equivalent of a brand new catamaran but it just seems like noone in their right mind would ever put out so much for so much risk. especially if you count your 2-3 years of labour which is worth atleast another 150k.

i thought buying a storm damaged cat would be a fun project and a nice way to get around Canada's insane import duties of 23% but once i ran the numbers is just seems like a headache.

for 20k i think id consider purchasing one of these boats but for any more it just seems like id be tossing good money after bad.
has anyone on here ever had a success story with these types of boats?
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Old 27-07-2018, 20:15   #2
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

A 78foot hurricane damaged aluminum sloop showed up next to us in Trinidad. Originally 1.2 million. The new owner picked it up for 20K. He will put back 250K.
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Old 27-07-2018, 20:21   #3
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

You forgot the biggest cost. Yard fees/storage while you do repairs.
There is a very good reason that there are so many derelict boats. Unfortunately it often costs more to refit, than the boat is worth in the end.
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Old 27-07-2018, 20:51   #4
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris mac View Post
You forgot the biggest cost. Yard fees/storage while you do repairs.
There is a very good reason that there are so many derelict boats. Unfortunately it often costs more to refit, than the boat is worth in the end.
agreed but in my case my yacht club allows 2 boats for every member so storage would only be about $100 a month extra for drydocking, or if i sold my mono it would end up around the same. even if i had no boat at all the costs would be the same because i wouldnt want to give up my seniority as a senior member


in the past i rebuilt a 1980 bayliner saratoga as a quit smoking project. in the end i spent 20k on a boat that was worth about $8k the saving grace was that the marine mechanic sank it and i got my 20k back in the insurance settlement. it as bitter sweet. now i do all my own work on my current boat.
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Old 27-07-2018, 21:18   #5
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

All the reasonably salvageable boats at a reasonable price sold quickly.


What you are seeing advertised now is the unreasonable dregs from dreamers or scammers.
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Old 27-07-2018, 22:00   #6
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

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All the reasonably salvageable boats at a reasonable price sold quickly.


What you are seeing advertised now is the unreasonable dregs from dreamers or scammers.

ats what i kind of figured. im glad this is confirmed. i had this vision of buying a sunken cat for 10-20k. throwing 2 kicker brackets and 2 30 horse outboards purchased in canada on the back and motoring it back to lake ontario for a rebuild. then id be paying 2-5 thousand import duty instead of 50-100 thousand import (which i dont think i could ever stomach doing). i was orginally toying with getting the boat to florida somehow and repowering it with new beta marine engines there and motoring back but canada has now imposed tariffs on marine products from the US. i suppose its just not a good time to buy a boat. my investments are doing way too well to even think about pulling capital for a boat right now anyways
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Old 28-07-2018, 04:17   #7
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

Also simple economics- itís a sellerís market.

X amount of storm damaged boats = x amount of insurance checks. Most of those = newly ordered or nearly new boats purchased, leaving very few boats for all others. Limited supply vs increased demand.

There are 2/3 year old boat owners asking new prices!
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Old 28-07-2018, 04:29   #8
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

salvaged boat is like lipstick on a pig
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Old 28-07-2018, 05:04   #9
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattm View Post
Hi all.

i've been scouring the net a bit and am seeings some hurricane damaged catamarans comming up at what seems to me to be outrageous prices ranging from 60-150k usd.
i think i would enjoy rebuilding a Cat but the pricing just doesnt make sense.
example

Lagoon 380 prices between 200-300k for non storm damaged


theres one for 100k.
to properly repair this boat i would expect.


15-20k transport

60-80k rigging and sails
40-50k for mechanical (new engines and genset)

20k atleast for replacing electrical

10k for new electronics
10-100k for glasswork and woodwork (who the hell knows)
15k for new cushions


lowballing $170k in repairs total of $270 and you still have a storm damaged cat that noone will ever want to buy. i know many of these repairs can be done much cheaper if you cut corners or with my estimates in the end you would basically have the equivalent of a brand new catamaran but it just seems like noone in their right mind would ever put out so much for so much risk. especially if you count your 2-3 years of labour which is worth atleast another 150k.

i thought buying a storm damaged cat would be a fun project and a nice way to get around Canada's insane import duties of 23% but once i ran the numbers is just seems like a headache.

for 20k i think id consider purchasing one of these boats but for any more it just seems like id be tossing good money after bad.
has anyone on here ever had a success story with these types of boats?
When I checked duty on most boats was 9% with 10% now on American boats as a result of the recent trade war. Add 5% for HST. Not sure where 23% comes from. I guess the obvious answer to your question is if the boat costs too much you don't buy it. There were a bunch of storm damaged Moorings cats in St Martin last spring. No idea what happened to them. Talked to a couple of guys in SXM who had rebuilt their own cats there. One of the hardest problems was getting spars. Moorings and other charter companies had bought the entire production of the mast makers.
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Old 28-07-2018, 05:06   #10
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattm View Post
ats what i kind of figured. im glad this is confirmed. i had this vision of buying a sunken cat for 10-20k. throwing 2 kicker brackets and 2 30 horse outboards purchased in canada on the back and motoring it back to lake ontario for a rebuild. then id be paying 2-5 thousand import duty instead of 50-100 thousand import (which i dont think i could ever stomach doing). i was orginally toying with getting the boat to florida somehow and repowering it with new beta marine engines there and motoring back but canada has now imposed tariffs on marine products from the US. i suppose its just not a good time to buy a boat. my investments are doing way too well to even think about pulling capital for a boat right now anyways
Ignoring any possibility of nasty weather on the way back I don't think you could carry enough fuel to motor say from St Martin to Bermuda and then Bermuda to NYC. BTW, gasoline was US$1.93 a litre in Bermuda in May.
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Old 28-07-2018, 05:12   #11
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

Thereís a video on YT of a Kiwi engineer with 10 years super yacht experience and a Navy seal who together bought a storm damaged Lagoon 45 in Tortola. Can of worms. Way more work than they bargained for.
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Old 28-07-2018, 05:14   #12
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
salvaged boat is like lipstick on a pig
Itís really no different than a damaged house. If the work is done properly it can be as good as new.
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Old 28-07-2018, 05:29   #13
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

Quote:
Originally Posted by AiniA View Post
When I checked duty on most boats was 9% with 10% now on American boats as a result of the recent trade war. Add 5% for HST. Not sure where 23% comes from. I guess the obvious answer to your question is if the boat costs too much you don't buy it. There were a bunch of storm damaged Moorings cats in St Martin last spring. No idea what happened to them. Talked to a couple of guys in SXM who had rebuilt their own cats there. One of the hardest problems was getting spars. Moorings and other charter companies had bought the entire production of the mast makers.
Correct however HST in Ontario is 13% plus 10% duty. At the end of the day tax is tax. In many US states there are maximums. In Canada there are not.
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Old 28-07-2018, 05:34   #14
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

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i thought buying a storm damaged cat would be a fun project and a nice way to get around Canada's insane import duties of 23% but once i ran the numbers is just seems like a headache.
If you think 23% is insane, whats left for us down here. In Argentina we have 50% import duties for new boats and used boats are not allowed.

Mariano

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Old 28-07-2018, 05:43   #15
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Re: overpriced storm damaged catamarans40

That's insane. I'm assuming Argentina doesn't have much of a yachting community.
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