Outremer Bids for Gunboat

[SVNeko]

» the guns of la grand motte | Sailing Anarchy

It's a lowball stalking-horse bid so may not be the ultimate winner, but would be very interesting to see what Outremer would do with the Gunboat line.

[Stumble]

I am pretty sure that the bid has already been accepted. In part Outreamer bought up a lot of Gunboat debt, so they got to vote to accept their own bid.

I think this could be a great merger. Outramers professionalism combined with Gunboats reputation and drive to innovate would be a great mix. Depending on how it all washes out in the end however.

[barnakiel]

Not much to bid for. Probably just a formal requirement. G went bankrupt and had negative BV. You do not 'bid' for negative BV, you simply take over if you hold a major stake of the debt.

Pretty sad end for G. Shithead management there.

b.

[Polux]

Yes, I believe they bought the reputation and a sales argument in America regarding fast expensive big cats.

It is good to understand that when we talk about Outremer we are not talking about a small French company that makes fast cruising cats but about the group to whom Outremer belong. That was certainly not an Outremer decision but an empresarial group decision (Grand Large Yachting) regarding commercial advantages.

The core of the groupe is constituted by Allures , the French company that makes aluminium voyage boats and includes also Garcia Yachts and Outremer Catamarans, all voyage boats on their perspective:

Grand Large Yachting - Tout le grand voyage

[cruisersfarm]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Not much to bid for. Probably just a formal requirement. G went bankrupt and had negative BV. You do not 'bid' for negative BV, you simply take over if you hold a major stake of the debt.

Pretty sad end for G.

b.

+1

Definitely just bought the brand and a few designs.

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Not much to bid for. Probably just a formal requirement. G went bankrupt and had negative BV. You do not 'bid' for negative BV, you simply take over if you hold a major stake of the debt.

Pretty sad end for G. Shithead management there.

b.

Of course its a formal requirement. They are under bankruptcy proceedings, and everything will be judge-approved from here on out. I haven't seen anything about O buying much of the G debt, which would be a tricky proposition since it will go for pennies on the dollar and in a 363 sale creditors don't get a final say over the transaction. It looks like they are buying only assets not the entire concern. Their credit bid looks to be about $110,000 so doesn't look like they bought up that much debt, unless there is another part of the case they are interested in. I can't tell from a quick look at the docket and I am too cheap to buy into the filings, but it doesn't look like the sale has closed yet (I do see Nigel Irons in there). In any event, as we all suspected, it appears there is not much equity left for creditors.

And as for the shithead comment, well there are some that do and some that sit back and criticize...

Edit: A check of the Outremer USA FB page (not Outremer Yachting, the builder's page) says they won the auction, so it is a done deal. Still no specifics on what was purchased.

[AD28]

more details in this discussion

Chapter 11 for Gunboat - Page 9 - Multihull Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Not much to bid for. Probably just a formal requirement. G went bankrupt and had negative BV. You do not 'bid' for negative BV, you simply take over if you hold a major stake of the debt.

Pretty sad end for G. Shithead management there.

b.

I think there is a good bit worth buying. The boat molds alone are worth hundreds of thousands dollars. Obviously there is a lot of debt, and probably no or little AR, but the brand itself is worth a lot, as well as the IP they own on the G4, foils in general, and to some extent carbon construction.

If GB has stopped trying to introduce new models until their R&D was payed off from the last ones I think the basic concept would org well.


My guess is that Outreamer is going to continue to produce performance cats, and GB will take on the larger, carbon projects. But with a little more sense to the GB program.

[Andrew Grace]

Originally Posted by Stumble

I think there is a good bit worth buying. The boat molds alone are worth hundreds of thousands dollars. Obviously there is a lot of debt, and probably no or little AR, but the brand itself is worth a lot, as well as the IP they own on the G4, foils in general, and to some extent carbon construction.

If GB has stopped trying to introduce new models until their R&D was payed off from the last ones I think the basic concept would org well.


My guess is that Outreamer is going to continue to produce performance cats, and GB will take on the larger, carbon projects. But with a little more sense to the GB program.

Actually I hope Outremer don't do this,

the GB molds are OK but the materials and process they used are too high end, better off reducing the spec of the boats so that they are only part carbon and cheaper materials to open them up to a wider sailing audience $1M to $1.5 USD base for a non carbon 50 GB.

If you think about where Outremer are coming from that will probable be their plan, (full carbon boats just don't make a lot of sense , $ vs Sailing Value)

[Stumble]

Andrew,

It isn't a question of if they will, Outreamer made a bid, and bought up debt to increase the likelyhood they would win with their bid.

The only question now is what are their plans for their new toy (GB).

[barnakiel]

Yes.

I too think this is how Out owners want to put a foot in the American door. They may lose financially on the deal in the short term but Out does not seem to be cash starved right now; their boats sell at a decent profit margin, unlike recent Guns.

Keep the name, update the designs and the production process, sell better stuff at better price. Done.

b.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Andrew Grace

Actually I hope Outremer don't do this,

the GB molds are OK but the materials and process they used are too high end, better off reducing the spec of the boats so that they are only part carbon and cheaper materials to open them up to a wider sailing audience $1M to $1.5 USD base for a non carbon 50 GB.

If you think about where Outremer are coming from that will probable be their plan, (full carbon boats just don't make a lot of sense , $ vs Sailing Value)

The high price of Gunboats is not only due to Carbon being used. Carbon boat building is become cheaper. I believe that the very high price had to do mostly with bad management.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Polux

The high price of Gunboats is not only due to Carbon being used. Carbon boat building is become cheaper. I believe that the very high price had to do mostly with bad management.

I am not sure I think it was all bad management, but that PJ was never happy with the boats they designed. Every boat in a series was heavily modified, and the duration of a series was too short. Just as an example, they built the 60, 62, and 66 within a few years of each other, never really getting the design finished, constantly changing the fit out... In effect every Gunboat is a custom boat that may (or may not) be built from the same molds.

Every hull had custom masts, sails, deck hardware, etc...

This places enormous overhead costs on every built, which can only be absorbed if every boat is priced as a full custom build.

I think this is where GB made a fatal mistake. They tried to price according to series builds, then modified the boats so much they were really all customs anyway. My guess is that Outreamer is going to end this constant cycle of development, settle on a reasonable range of boats, and turn them into true series built boats. Resulting in massive price savings over what GB has been doing.

Keep in mind that the cost of switching to carbon for a 45' monohull over glass is only about $50,000 added to the final price. The price to build a carbon GB isn't that much higher than a glass one.

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by Polux

The high price of Gunboats is not only due to Carbon being used. Carbon boat building is become cheaper. I believe that the very high price had to do mostly with bad management.

Bad management begets high prices and sharp demand? Funny that...

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by Stumble

My guess is that Outreamer is going to end this constant cycle of development, settle on a reasonable range of boats, and turn them into true series built boats. Resulting in massive price savings over what GB has been doing.

Sounds about right to me.