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Old 23-04-2016, 15:00   #31
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

I noticed something called Outremer 4X.

How good is this one? Is it new?

Looks alike that TS42 thing.

Is she 4 ... ??? feet long.

b.
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Old 23-04-2016, 15:06   #32
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

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Originally Posted by ausnp84 View Post
I wouldn't trust a Rapier, based on the videos and what I've seen with Broadblue cats....




Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on this remark?


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Old 23-04-2016, 15:07   #33
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I noticed something called Outremer 4X.

How good is this one? Is it new?

Looks alike that TS42 thing.

Is she 4 ... ??? feet long.

b.

Based on FB the 4X is an extended 45 (to 48) many weight savings (more carbon...), more sail area, many improvements and... différent look.

8 tons ready to sail, 123 m² upwind, 687 K€ with sails.

In light wind it should exceed windspeed.

Interestingly the 3 feet is not in the scoops only.
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Old 24-04-2016, 01:35   #34
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

The only production boat comparable to O51 in terms of price, performance and comfort is Catana carbon 47.
I haven't sailed this latter but seen one sailing next to me when I was on board of O51.
Both are coming at around a million USD with carbon mast, genset, A/C, high tech sails.
Catana is bit shorter in length but offers almost the same if not slightly more space.
O 51 is a real fun to sail, very responsive to trimming, very good saloon and cockpit but the cabins are a bit crampy for 51 ft boat. Finish is "average" for this price tag. Sails are easy to handle. (I don't like the Catana concept with huge winch on the aft and the lines running underneath the bridge to this winch..) .


We are doing some works on this O 51 in our yard and I can tell you that after sales doesn 't exist; there are some warranty works and Outremer didn't even bother to answer any of our questions so far.


Cheers


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Old 24-04-2016, 03:20   #35
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

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We are doing some works on this O 51 in our yard and I can tell you that after sales doesn 't exist; there are some warranty works and Outremer didn't even bother to answer any of our questions so far.

Cheer
Yeloya
It's a French thing (actually a lot of continental Europe too). Much though I love France and the country, they are usually awful at customer service, whether paid or non paid such as for warranty work. Even worse if you don't attempt to speak French.
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Old 24-04-2016, 04:07   #36
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

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It's a French thing (actually a lot of continental Europe too). Much though I love France and the country, they are usually awful at customer service, whether paid or non paid such as for warranty work. Even worse if you don't attempt to speak French.
That is not totally untrue. But I would have have expect a lot better from Outremer, as it is part of their marketing strategy to follow their customers in the adventures. At least that's what the boss says on some videos I've seen.
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Old 24-04-2016, 06:36   #37
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

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Except. of course, that the Rapier 550 was designed by Darren Newton and is constructed by his Multimarine boatbuilders (as are Dazcats). The 400 is designed by a German designer and built in Poland by experienced builders. Construction of another Broadblue model (the 345) was moved there from China.

The Dazcats are very sporty, the Rapier 550 has more accommodation, but appears to have good performance.
I stand corrected on the Rapier then - Darren has an exceptional reputation and I have a lot of respect for Dazcats and Multimarine.

Each of the Broadblues I've been on has frankly, felt cheap and more intended for the charter market than owner use. Just my 2p, each to their own.

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Old 24-04-2016, 07:40   #38
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

Yelola. Is outremer covering the cost of the work?

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Old 24-04-2016, 10:03   #39
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

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Yelola. Is outremer covering the cost of the work?

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We don't know as they never answered the mails and in the end the owner had to pay for it..

I have to add that this was O 51 #1 , most of the issues of this boat could have been solved by now..

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Old 25-04-2016, 14:50   #40
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

New poster here so please be gentle! We are test sailing performance cruising cats at the moment and took a Catana 47 out. We achieved similar figures - 19 knots breeze, 14 knots at about 35 apparent, one reef. I was impressed especially given the load it was carrying, (2 freezers, a microwave, TV and washing machine). I can't really separate Outremer from Catana. The Catana seems to be better finished and contemporary, but the rig is relatively complicated. The Outremer tillers are great. Performance seems similar.

So my question is why is the Catana not covered here as a potential alternative? Am I missing something obvious?
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Old 25-04-2016, 15:17   #41
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

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New poster here so please be gentle! We are test sailing performance cruising cats at the moment and took a Catana 47 out. We achieved similar figures - 19 knots breeze, 14 knots at about 35 apparent, one reef. I was impressed especially given the load it was carrying, (2 freezers, a microwave, TV and washing machine). I can't really separate Outremer from Catana. The Catana seems to be better finished and contemporary, but the rig is relatively complicated. The Outremer tillers are great. Performance seems similar.

So my question is why is the Catana not covered here as a potential alternative? Am I missing something obvious?
Maybe because it is not a potential alternative. Or are you talking C47 - the Carbon Catana?

Well. C47 is:
- shorter (3 ft),
- heavier (by 10%),
- has less SA (by about 40%).

It will not match an Outremer 51, neither is it meant to.

Do not get hung up on the tillers: if you are sailing long offshore passages, you do not want to be sitting in the wind and sun any more than necessary.

It is easy to fully power up a boat on 20 knots of wind 35 apparent. It is a different story to sail fast well off the wind in light conditions. Light conditions predominate the long range cruising routes of the world (expect 15 knots of wind or less, from 150 to 180, most of the milk route).

They are just basically different concepts. Which does not take anything from Catana, which is a prime ship in her own league.

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Old 25-04-2016, 15:30   #42
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

Thanks. I have only looked at the Outremer 45, not the 51. Yes, it was the 47 carbon and I agree about the tillers - great fun but just that. Still, the OP spoke about 15 knots breeze, 40 degrees and 10-11. Am I right that what you are saying is that the Catana performance is going to tail off significantly as the breeze drops?
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Old 25-04-2016, 15:49   #43
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

Z lm


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Old 25-04-2016, 16:46   #44
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

Also Outremer will contract to build to a weight and guarantee it, Catana - not so much. Catana's weights are rough guides rather than a contracted spec.
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Old 25-04-2016, 16:56   #45
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Re: Outremer 51 - so I took a test sail

I like the Catana as well, it is just geared to a slightly different purpose vs. all out performance. A very nice subtle compromise. I think it is going to be the light wind performance where the boats separate performance wise. Both are very capable of speed and pointing to the wind, but being able to achieve 90 percent of wind speed properly trimmed would be pretty nice when you are in 6 knots. Might be the difference between actually sailing or turning on the engine (blasphemy I know). I originally was considering the O45 as well, mostly because of short handing reasons. Spending time on both boats though, it became apparent that if you can handle the 45 you could handle the 51...with a whole lot more livability. There has to be a reason that there is not even 1 of these available on the used market currently.
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