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Old 31-01-2015, 03:45   #1
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Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

I'm looking at options for a faster passage catamaran with a max budget around E300k. The two boats I'm thinking about are 10 - 12 year old Outremer 45 or Freydis 46. I know quite a bit about the Outremer (and like it's relatively small interior as I mostly single hand) but I know nothing about the Freydis.

I'd appreciate comments from anyone who knows both boats and could make comparisons of....
- hull widths
- saloon size
- sailing performance
- anything else

The Freydis has fixed keels so it presumably suffers from higher side slip when sailing to windward the same as other fixed keel catamarans?
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Old 31-01-2015, 04:30   #2
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

Even tough I didn't have a chance to sail, I had a quite a bit of research on Eric Lerouge design cats. He's making fast, light, seaworthy cats with ample bridge deck clearance, slim hulls. He's a firm believer of the benefits of rotating mast and this incorporated in most of his designs.

The downside is the pay load or load carrying capability. Because of the narrow hulls, they tend to lose the performance sharply as the boat starts getting loaded. Lastly, again as a result of the hulls, to reach a decent width, the beds are quite high and you will need to climb almost a meter ..

Their performance should be pretty close to those of O 45. The daggerboards of O 45 will help reducing the leeway a bit but will further reduce the payload by another 4-500 kg which is also problematic for the O 45.

Lastly, Outremer will be much easier to sell out compared to Freydis, when you decide to do so.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 31-01-2015, 14:32   #3
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Even tough I didn't have a chance to sail, I had a quite a bit of research on Eric Lerouge design cats. He's making fast, light, seaworthy cats with ample bridge deck clearance, slim hulls. He's a firm believer of the benefits of rotating mast and this incorporated in most of his designs.

The downside is the pay load or load carrying capability. Because of the narrow hulls, they tend to lose the performance sharply as the boat starts getting loaded. Lastly, again as a result of the hulls, to reach a decent width, the beds are quite high and you will need to climb almost a meter ..

Their performance should be pretty close to those of O 45. The daggerboards of O 45 will help reducing the leeway a bit but will further reduce the payload by another 4-500 kg which is also problematic for the O 45.

Lastly, Outremer will be much easier to sell out compared to Freydis, when you decide to do so.

Cheers

Yeloya
Hi Yeloya,

Thanks for your comments.

A couple of questions...
- how is it that the dagger boards will reduce the Outremer's payload...do you mean just because of the weight of the boards themselves?
- you said that the Outremer will be much easier to sell...are Freydis not an easy boat to sell?

Cheers
Barrie
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Old 31-01-2015, 15:06   #4
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

Mr Lerouge estimates that fixed keel boat for his new composite design will have 510 kg of extra pay load.
I would have guessewd this is due to the volume of fixed keels which are just polyurethan foam that are buoyant + the weight of dagger boards.


Second hand prices are just my gut feeling, can be true or false..

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 31-01-2015, 21:55   #5
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisin Cat View Post
Hi Yeloya,

Thanks for your comments.

A couple of questions...
- how is it that the dagger boards will reduce the Outremer's payload...do you mean just because of the weight of the boards themselves?
- you said that the Outremer will be much easier to sell...are Freydis not an easy boat to sell?

Cheers
Barrie
Its about the bouyancy from the volume of the keels. They would displace that volume of water. 1 cubic meter fresh water = 1000kg. Tony Grainger an Australian designer says exactly the same and he often recommends the fixed keels for his cruising catamarans to help with load carrying.

cheers
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Old 31-01-2015, 23:26   #6
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

Thanks for the explanation on fixed keels and extra payload.

I sail mostly single handed so even with a fair amount of tools and spare parts that I carry my boat is usually pretty lightly loaded.

I am keen on dagger boards after a sailing experience last year in the Pacific.....I sailed for 2 days with a similar size dagger board cat, and after 2 days hard on the wind the other boat (with the boards) was just able to make landfall on the leeward side of the island we were aiming for. For me, even though I was able to maintain a heading that put me right on the island, the leeway I was making put my COG 10 deg down wind from the island so after 2 days with my friend anchoring in a comfortable bay, I was 20nm leeward of the island....had to tack back 30nm then tack again for another 30nm to the island.
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Old 01-02-2015, 00:22   #7
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

there is also decrease in space in hull due to draggerboard.

Lerougue cats has very shallow fixed keel. I think freydis all up 1.1m deep. Pointing ability difference to draggerboard version is quite small as boat keeps speed up.

I think lerogue cat is for purists.

i would love to be in that group
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Old 16-08-2015, 04:40   #8
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

Not sure how old this thread is,

But what is the conclusion? besides resale value which is the better boat?

C-man
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Old 16-08-2015, 13:48   #9
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

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Originally Posted by C-man77 View Post
Not sure how old this thread is,

But what is the conclusion? besides resale value which is the better boat?

C-man
I decided that an Outremer 55 Light is the better boat and bought one...very fast and smooth passage boat.
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Old 16-08-2015, 15:54   #10
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisin Cat View Post
I decided that an Outremer 55 Light is the better boat and bought one...very fast and smooth passage boat.
I have looked at that one too, 55' is one hell of a big boat, but the Outremer is mostly
hulls out the front and back anyway and has the interiour of about a 40' but thats makes it so seaworthy.
Is that too much for a couple to handle?

I see the light is 600mm less in beam than the standard, Is that better?

sorry to hijack this thread but it went this way anyway.

C-man
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Old 17-08-2015, 20:31   #11
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

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Originally Posted by C-man77 View Post
I have looked at that one too, 55' is one hell of a big boat, but the Outremer is mostly
hulls out the front and back anyway and has the interiour of about a 40' but thats makes it so seaworthy.
Is that too much for a couple to handle?

I see the light is 600mm less in beam than the standard, Is that better?

sorry to hijack this thread but it went this way anyway.

C-man
Definitely not too much for a couple. There are lots of couples sailing them, mostly French. I bought my boat from a French couple.

I single hand my boat...and it's no more difficult to single hand than my previous 40 ft cat. It has a couple more bits of gear to adjust (boards and running back stays) but on the other hand it is a lot more stable platform to work from particularly in rough conditions.

I've never been on a standard 55 so don't know much about them. In the Outremer propaganda, the light is supposed to be the faster boat
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Old 18-08-2015, 18:45   #12
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

10 yo Outremers can be had pretty cheap, do they last well?

I was talking with a boat builder and he says it depends of the core material and the type of resin used.

do you know anything about the build of the Outremer?

cheers!

C-man
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Old 18-08-2015, 18:53   #13
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

C-man have you considered a Tim munby cyber48 see Harwood Marine - Shipbuilding, Marine Construction, Project Management, Design and Engineering Group

Or just google cyber 48 catamaran
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Old 18-08-2015, 18:59   #14
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

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Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post

New builds would be out of my price range of $400K AU-peso

Alloy would be nice though!

C-man
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Old 18-08-2015, 19:04   #15
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Re: Outremer 45 v's Freydis 46

There is one for sale I know of 3 yrs old called rehab for 450k I bet you could get it for 400k
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