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Old 27-08-2018, 21:44   #61
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

You mnight be able to type on your computers all day long and use up all that energy.


When the hell will you find time to FIX things on the boat.


None of was born an electrician, plumber or mechanic. We all learned when we chose to buy boats.


Whether your a beginner, coasstal cruiser or cruiser full-time, you ALWAYS have to fix things.


Get off the YouTubby BS and go sailing. Find out if you like it, first, before you do all the rest of your planning stuff.


I've owned boats since 1983, a 22, 25 and now for the past 20 years our C34.


You need to START somewhere. Your ideas are, quite frankly, plain bunk, until you go sailing FIRST.


Buy a small boat and see if it is what you LIKE. You may find that buying a RV may be more up your alley.


Or not.


But heck, how will you know until you try it?
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Old 27-08-2018, 21:54   #62
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
You mnight be able to type on your computers all day long and use up all that energy.


When the hell will you find time to FIX things on the boat.


None of was born an electrician, plumber or mechanic. We all learned when we chose to buy boats.


Whether your a beginner, coasstal cruiser or cruiser full-time, you ALWAYS have to fix things.


Get off the YouTubby BS and go sailing. Find out if you like it, first, before you do all the rest of your planning stuff.


I've owned boats since 1983, a 22, 25 and now for the past 20 years our C34.


You need to START somewhere. Your ideas are, quite frankly, plain bunk, until you go sailing FIRST.


Buy a small boat and see if it is what you LIKE. You may find that buying a RV may be more up your alley.


Or not.


But heck, how will you know until you try it?
Someone earlier suggested a diesel engine class which goes with what you're saying having to learn it all.

We're trying to get out as soon as we can! I'd go tomorrow if I was able.

All my boating expereince is on fresh water. Mostly 20ft mud boats. We have owned a a Hobie cat kayak for 8 years and have taken that out in the ocean before, but it's small compared to anything that's real sailing.
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Old 27-08-2018, 22:40   #63
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

King Guppy your comment “got to be financially smart to afford a $300,000 yacht at 30” made me laugh. Plenty of people reading this forum like myself were to busy in their 20’s being boat bums and living life rather than being a wage slave.
Maybe you should put your Weiner back in you pants and start with being a small guppy first!
Cheers and keep stroking it I am loving hearing your reply’s!
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Old 27-08-2018, 22:50   #64
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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King Guppy your comment “got to be financially smart to afford a $300,000 yacht at 30” made me laugh. Plenty of people reading this forum like myself were to busy in their 20’s being boat bums and living life rather than being a wage slave.
Maybe you should put your Weiner back in you pants and start with being a small guppy first!
Cheers and keep stroking it I am loving hearing your reply’s!
lol, I came to a sailing forum and got financial advise.

I'm definitely a wage slave and the wife is too. I think most break free 60+ at retirement, so we're trying to break the chains at 30. Luckily everyone is giving great stuff we didn't consider.
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Old 27-08-2018, 23:37   #65
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Small Guppy, Library 70 makes a good point on page 4.
I reckon if you can afford to go top shelf from the start why not? Cheque book cruising is not uncommon now days. Plenty of my customers have very little experience and can pay to learn all they need to. Pay a skipper on your cat until you get confidence, pay a mechanic to watch you service the engines, really everything you need to know can be brought. The only thing you cannot buy is instinct and skill. Judging by the way some boat owners anchor and handle there boats I am not even sure you need that. Some of the worst boat handling I have seen in marinas has been from circumnavigators. One even admitted to me he is an excellent sailor he just needs some room!
I think it offends some people that you have not come up through the ranks and instead you want to buy an officers commission.
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Old 27-08-2018, 23:51   #66
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

New morning, new morning coffee thoughts! Yaay!!!

1) Rental properties: That's our income stream. Contrary to above advice, I would absolutely NOT sell them. Not just because they are our only income stream. I'm in the superminority I think, but I would hate knowing OK, I sold everything and now I can buy X boat and sail for 3 years and then sell it and get back to 'normal' life.... once you taste it, IF you like it, how could you ever go back?? We found an excellent property management company, and they take 7% of the income and do EVERYTHING. Handle evictions, handle repairs (and send me 3 quotes via email for each).... You have a guaranteed income stream in perpetuity.... as someone who might want to cruise forever, why would you ever ditch that security (except for rental property reasons, ie changing market to get a different rental house, etc)?

2) Renting to family because it's better/safer/easier? OH NO YOU DIDN'T GO THERE Please don't do that. Family is a beautiful thing... you can rely on family for anything. Including when you're short on rent. Are you gonna be able to evict a family member for not paying for a few months in order to finance your (to others) extravagant and entirely elective yacht lifestyle? Long and short answer: nope. So stick with strangers, be a good landlord with a good heart and a good management company, and be ready to email them from Belize or Madagascar to evict that bad tenant without a second thought.

3) You must have seen the thread on here about the batteries, right? It's huge and contentious and has a whole lot to learn from it.

4) Get both solar and wind rigged up, and I think you'll be fine with whatever batteries. Topping up with distilled water once in a while is not much maintenance at all. An idea which we use just for convenience but you might benefit more from: get a separate little solar panel electronics/laptop charger. We type in the cockpit a lot of the time, and it's just easier than running an extension cord up there. There are lots on amazon, and might be good emergency/supplemental power for the computers...

5) Regarding wind turbines, some are MUCH noisier than others! We've had good luck with Silentwind but haven't had much to compare it to, except what we hear at anchor. But you need it at night and after a few cloudy days in a row...

6) Regarding boat size, we were in the bought the largest we could afford camp, with the caveat of having enough left over for maintenance and such. Why? Because living on a 40 foot sailboat is not the same as a 50 foot, it is 10 feet longer but feels 30 feet better if you get what I mean... This is coming from someone who has also lived with my wife in a VW bus around the med for almost a year, and loved it (ie the tiniest home you can imagine). But now that I am a bit older (40 isn't the end of the world, and the girls are only 33 and 34, but still, you creak more) and there are three of us (six if you include three teenage kittens), we need a little more space, Kitty needs an office (which y'all might appreciate too), Cristina needs a sundeck, I need storage space for 2000 bottles of prosecco, blah blah. If you feel immediately cramped and ducking around inside a small boat, you (or worse, your partner) might get turned off real fast. I understand it's more prudent to try something small and cheap to see if you like it, but we bought the 53footer as our first boat because we've sailed a bit before, and sort of knew ourselves well enough to be able to anticipate that we would love it and love the adventure. And seven months in, that's been the case so far. And yes, I have known a guy who bought a 50 foot Jeanneau as his very first boat with ZERO sailing experience. Got an instructor to teach him how to sail on that exact boat, and is happily puttering around the Med right now. He did half-crush his hand starting out, but he's better now, and I'm sure smarter for the experience of not fending off with your own body

7) Hell yes, you are doing great for your age, you should be proud. Sure some people have been sailing and living on a boat since age 7, but those are as lucky in a different way as you (and me) who could get our hands on a boat way before retirement age Equally lucky, just differently.

8) Oh yeah, electronics.... I listed some before that are fun and have worked so far, not much else to add... most important electronics at the moment is the bread machine But seriously, we do have 2 of the two most important electronics systems in my limited opinion: plotter and autopilot, both standalone and separated for redundancy. Yes you can use an iPad to plot, yes you can hand steer, but you don't want to have to do either on a long passage. Good sound system, christmas lights, movie projector up, big flatscreen below....make the place feel like home! It's not electronics, but a good watermaker... not cheap but wow, having unlimited freshwater is amazing.

9) Go read an anchor thread If you don't have a new gen anchor on whatever you get, get one. Mantus, Rocna. They seem interchangeable but we have Rocna. Again, I haven't anchored with all kinds in all weather, but I do have enough experience to say this: Anchoring gear is your most important piece of gear, period. Anchoring with a sub-par or older style anchor can be fiddly, take multiple tries, and can put your boat at risk of complete destruction (and others near you) when it plows a furrow thru the anchorage. Won't matter what kind of batteries you have if you skimp on your rode and anchor setup if you end up on a beach. For cruising get the biggest authentic new gen type you can afford and fit on the bow, and sleep well at night. And with our Rocna, I can plop that sucker down almost anywhere on any ridiculous scope, back it down at 3/4 rpms, and it sticks like tick. That said, be smart and use 1:5 if you have room, and dive on it if you're gonna leave the boat for any decent length of time

11) Since I have a little coffee left, I'll say at least check out Amels. I always bore people with this, and if you have read above you know it's our first and only boat, so it's stupid to listen to me as I have a sample size of 1. But it is such a damn fine boat in terms of quality for money, space and layout and safety and ease of sailing, I can't imagine what could beat it. You won't win races, but you will trundle to the ends of the earth in comfort, for as little as 160,000....Massive storage space.... It reminds me of our old VW, slow and steady and always starts on the first crank. Ours is a 1991 Super Maramu, but the older Mangos, Santorins and Maramus are all fantastic once you upgrade them, and really, dirt cheap compared to lots out there. Kitty wrote about ours a bit on the website (in sig line) and there are photos there and on FB. You'll either love it or hate it, so at least it'll be an easy option to rule in or out. Also the only sailboat we found of that size with a proper queen-sized sundeck aft. The girls (and the cats) do love their sun

Right, that'll do for now! Off I go to read that battery thread some more and try to learn something....
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Old 28-08-2018, 02:43   #67
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Aside from knowing how to sail (and I recommend you try sailing in a cat in bad weather too not just perfect sunny days) I strongly suggest you both attend the Chapman professional mariners course in Ft Pierce, FL. They’ll teach you how everything onboard works and more importantly: how to fix them. They will also teach you everything you need to know to pass the USCG 6-pack exam, the rules of the road, how to dock any boat, repair, etc.
the rules are important but many boaters seem to skip learning them.
My advice to sail in bad weather is just so you know what you are getting into because much sooner than later you will find yourself in bad weather if you go forward with your plans.
Just my 2 cents...)
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Old 28-08-2018, 03:06   #68
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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Originally Posted by KingGuppy View Post
We don't have much interest in a monohull, but we will look at some smaller cats. However some of the monohulls i've looked at do look pretty snazzy, but the ride may not be what we'd enjoy
How do you know?

Both cats and mono's have their pro's and cons. Both 'move' when there's wind and waves.

How do you know you won't enjoy a mono but will love a cat enough to live aboard full time, if you've never experienced either?

Not trying to be mean here, just wondering 'out loud'
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Old 28-08-2018, 06:18   #69
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

As has been amply mentioned, you (the OP) really need to get a lot more actual experience before investing all the effort into making detailed plans and decisions. I suggest you also need to identify your primary reason(s) for doing all this.

You say you are trying to “get away” by age 30. You mentioned freedom. I absolutely applaud you on this. I made the break when I was 48 (now 51). We’re cruising indefinitely in a comfortable floating home. We’re exploring, and living life on our terms. Freedom was one of the main drivers in our cruising plan.

You talk about financial planning, and having to finance a certain lifestyle that includes deep debt into a pricey boat. This drives your need for a largish cat, and large power needs. It will also severely limit where you can cruise, and will increase your insurance, maintenance and repair costs (in both time and money).

All these expenses demand a fairly high revenue stream. But there are two ways to balance the books: increase revenue or decrease expenses. This is why I suggest you clearly identify why you are doing this. If it is, as you say, to gain freedom, then instead of focusing on the revenue side, why not work on the cost side? It’s what we did, and why we are able to cruise on ~$1,400/month.

What you really need to do is get out and cruise for a while. I usually suggest newbies buy an inexpensive, solid, fully equipped cruising level boat. Then, go cruising for a while. Courses and charters and Internet babble are fine, but they’ll never teach you what you really need to know about boat ownership. Go cruising for as long as you can: weeks at a minimum. Many months is better. You’ll start to understand the life, and understand what you really need and want in THE boat.
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Old 28-08-2018, 06:24   #70
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
Small Guppy, Library 70 makes a good point on page 4.
I reckon if you can afford to go top shelf from the start why not? Cheque book cruising is not uncommon now days. Plenty of my customers have very little experience and can pay to learn all they need to. Pay a skipper on your cat until you get confidence, pay a mechanic to watch you service the engines, really everything you need to know can be brought. The only thing you cannot buy is instinct and skill. Judging by the way some boat owners anchor and handle there boats I am not even sure you need that. Some of the worst boat handling I have seen in marinas has been from circumnavigators. One even admitted to me he is an excellent sailor he just needs some room!
I think it offends some people that you have not come up through the ranks and instead you want to buy an officers commission.
Cheers
Sounds correct. Hoping to gain some instincts when going out with other captains. The anchor example is a good one. I thought anchoring was simple until I read how to actually anchor. So much to learn.

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Originally Posted by Tdh001 View Post
Aside from knowing how to sail (and I recommend you try sailing in a cat in bad weather too not just perfect sunny days) I strongly suggest you both attend the Chapman professional mariners course in Ft Pierce, FL. They’ll teach you how everything onboard works and more importantly: how to fix them. They will also teach you everything you need to know to pass the USCG 6-pack exam, the rules of the road, how to dock any boat, repair, etc.
the rules are important but many boaters seem to skip learning them.
My advice to sail in bad weather is just so you know what you are getting into because much sooner than later you will find yourself in bad weather if you go forward with your plans.
Just my 2 cents...)
I hadn't yet heard of this one. Great suggestion! Thank you.

We were going to do a 7 day ASA course that im hoping we get some really bad weather in so that I can learn from the professionals on board how to react and be safe. I'm sure they'll train it regardless, but better to experience it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syPhilos View Post
How do you know?

Both cats and mono's have their pro's and cons. Both 'move' when there's wind and waves.

How do you know you won't enjoy a mono but will love a cat enough to live aboard full time, if you've never experienced either?

Not trying to be mean here, just wondering 'out loud'
We don't know for sure, but the lean on some mono's I've seen makes my wife "Nope" right out of the idea. Some of the mono's i've seen listed on Yachtworld are beautiful though and have a great layout.

In another post on here someone said a catamaran is like a condo on the sea. Thats what she/we'd prefer.
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Old 28-08-2018, 09:19   #71
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

One thing I can tell you, is that BEFORE you go boat shopping, you better find a slip where you can keep the boat while getting it ready to cast off.

Your location says Florida, but not what part of FL. Most of the marinas in SW Florida can't accommodate a catamaran or are just plain filled up. Most of the full marinas had six month or longer waiting lists.
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Old 28-08-2018, 09:32   #72
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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The S&P 500 National Return Rate Avareages
2015 - 11.96%
2016 - 12.25%
2017 - 22%
2018 - Waiting on it.

Loan rate on a 20yr marine loan is 4.99%. This means on every $100k i borrow, I get to keep my $100k vested, making 12% minimum return minus the 5% loan, which leaves me 7% gain, or $7,000. So borrowing $200k and keeping my $200k vested gives me $14,000 off investments alone. This is assuming 2015 numbers when the market was terrible. Assuming current numbers around 20%, I get 15% or $15,000 per $100k vested ($30,000yr for the full $200k vested).

By taking a loan and not using my own money I'm able to earn $14,000-$30,000 a year of just returns AFTER paying back the interest rate.

Gotta be somewhat financial savvy to afford a $300k boat at 30, right?

math
Arbitrage is the word you are looking for. I suggest you look it up and understand where you have gone HORRIBLY wrong here. HINT: The S&P has been negative in 24 of the last 90 years and less than 4.99% in 30 years. Some years were VERY negative. Cherry picking your data from the longest bull market in history is not wise.

And when you go down 10% this year and up 10% the next, you still have less than you started with. Math
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Old 28-08-2018, 09:46   #73
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

I guess at age 30 one is too young to really remember 2008.

I would not make a large purchase that's dependent on continuing seeing gains like we've seen in the last 5 years.

Living through a good ol fashioned bone-crusher of a recession gives one perspective.
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Old 28-08-2018, 10:21   #74
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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Arbitrage is the word you are looking for. I suggest you look it up and understand where you have gone HORRIBLY wrong here. HINT: The S&P has been negative in 24 of the last 90 years and less than 4.99% in 30 years. Some years were VERY negative. Cherry picking your data from the longest bull market in history is not wise.

And when you go down 10% this year and up 10% the next, you still have less than you started with. Math
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I guess at age 30 one is too young to really remember 2008.

I would not make a large purchase that's dependent on continuing seeing gains like we've seen in the last 5 years.

Living through a good ol fashioned bone-crusher of a recession gives one perspective.
2008: https://prnt.sc/knx0ma

I'm just here for sailing advice. I'm doing okay on the financial part.
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Old 28-08-2018, 10:24   #75
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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2008: https://prnt.sc/knx0ma

I'm just here for sailing advice. I'm doing okay on the financial part.
You're missing out then. Lots of smart folks on here.
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