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Old 28-08-2018, 15:09   #91
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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Originally Posted by KingGuppy View Post
The S&P 500 National Return Rate Avareages
2015 - 11.96%
2016 - 12.25%
2017 - 22%
2018 - Waiting on it.

Loan rate on a 20yr marine loan is 4.99%. This means on every $100k i borrow, I get to keep my $100k vested, making 12% minimum return minus the 5% loan, which leaves me 7% gain, or $7,000. So borrowing $200k and keeping my $200k vested gives me $14,000 off investments alone. This is assuming 2015 numbers when the market was terrible. Assuming current numbers around 20%, I get 15% or $15,000 per $100k vested ($30,000yr for the full $200k vested).

By taking a loan and not using my own money I'm able to earn $14,000-$30,000 a year of just returns AFTER paying back the interest rate.

What happens if there's a major stock market correction the year after you buy your boat, and the return is -10% or -20%? Will you be able to make payments on your boat loan, and cover all your other expenses? Before committing to this course of action, you really need to:

1. Read up on what happened before and during the 2008 crash (the year the S&P500 had a return of -37%), and how millions of peoples' exuberance led them to make the same sort of decision you're proposing making, and how it all ended in tears.


2. Read up on the dangers of leveraged investments, and how a small drop in asset values can bankrupt you.


3. Discuss your plans with a professional financial advisor.
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Old 28-08-2018, 15:27   #92
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

This thread made me laugh. Its just ridiculous. Nothing against dreamers, but there seems to be a constant flow of fresh know-it-all dreamers asking the forum to moth-feed them the wrong detailed aspects when its obviouis they are not ready for that type of question.



OK, a few years ago I bought my first boat, a Lagoon 410. At that time I had very very little experience: Two weeks as guests onboard a circumnavigating cat with a cruising couple. A few hours holiday sailing on a hobie, an outdated boating license, a one week bareboat charter in Croatia.
I signed up for a sabbattical year and took my family across the Med & Atlantic & Caribbean where we sold the boat to return home as planned.


But honestly, compared to what you are trying to do, this was easy.

I had at least some minimal experience. I knew I would not get seasick in a blow. We both had experienced the cruising lifestlye and knew we love it. I read a lot. I am handy, and I can fix a lot of things. Youtube knows how to fix the other things.
I had financial stability. I could return to my job after the year and I owned the boat and my house with no debt. I had enough savings to not be worried about the year and a couple of months more. I could focus on enjoying the trip (and the maintenance) instead of working my a** off to make ends meet.


What you are trying to do is suicide. You want to finance a fast deprecating boat, ride a record breaking bull market near the end of the cycle, grow a business on a boat that you haven't been able to grow while at home, become a youtube star, all that while you learn how to sail and repair a boat in remote locations.

It's obvious from your answers that you don't even know that you don't know much. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking about battery type or length of the boat name. this is as important as the color of the topping lift or your coffe mug.


I guess we are feeding a troll.


But if not: Check forums to find an experienced cruising couple that offers cabin charter. Join them for three weeks or more. Ask them everything, watch, read all blogs/books/forums you can get hold of and learn.
Then revisit your plan.

And reconsider your financials. I know you don't want to hear it but you can't afford a 300k boat and your planned lifestyle for a year unless you have at least 450+k cash (not invested) plus some money for plan B. Anything you have on top can be invested (i.e. put at risk)
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Old 28-08-2018, 15:34   #93
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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In all honesty you'll probably encounter uncomfortable to down right terrifying (depending on your demeanour) situations a half dozen or more times in your first year and less and less as you gain experience. As you look back you'll see that they weren't that bad or at least avoidable. As mentioned it would be very prudent of you to buy a smallish <30' boat and weekend it for the next two years while you save (you can probably find something for 2-3 grand and sell for the same); nothing fancy, even something with an outboard. If you were to do that, it would go a long way in showing that you are in fact ready to do this and accept the responsibility that comes with it. To deny it shows your ignorance and arrogance.
All nonsense. They should buy what they want, then just be careful and sail within their ability, slowly working their way out of their comfort zone.
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Old 28-08-2018, 15:51   #94
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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What happens if there's a major stock market correction the year after you buy your boat
Do like old salts: hit a container, call your insurer :/ (lol)
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Old 28-08-2018, 15:52   #95
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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All nonsense. They should buy what they want, then just be careful and sail within their ability, slowly working their way out of their comfort zone.
And what happens when they anchor or slip next to your new 62? And I'm still waiting for you to push them in the direction of a certain Oyster 53 you have for sale.
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Old 28-08-2018, 15:56   #96
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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2008: https://prnt.sc/knx0ma



I'm just here for sailing advice. I'm doing okay on the financial part.


Then why bring up your financial plan?
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Old 28-08-2018, 16:04   #97
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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And what happens when they anchor or slip next to your new 62? And I'm still waiting for you to push them in the direction of a certain Oyster 53 you have for sale.
You seem very bitter. Why so negative towards everyone?
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Old 28-08-2018, 16:14   #98
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

just in case my above post sounds too negative.

I'm not telling you that you can't do it. All I'm saying is the way you are approaching it has a very slim chance of a happy outcome.
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Old 28-08-2018, 16:24   #99
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Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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All nonsense. They should buy what they want, then just be careful and sail within their ability, slowly working their way out of their comfort zone.


That is just it, they arenít buying, they are borrowing.
That is a completely different thing entirely. When you buy and for whatever reason things get tough, you can anchor out and spend next to nothing until you recover, if you have big bills that have to be paid every month and things get tough, well itís how Iíve watched people ďloseĒ their houses etc.
People that a few months ago were telling me how I was a fool for owning, donít buy, invest that money, you make money that way.
Yeah right, all those tense of millions of dollars of money loaned out donít make money for those banks, they are stupid, they donít know what they are doing.
Itís like buy a time share, have others pay for a Vacation home you couldnít afford otherwise.
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Old 28-08-2018, 16:26   #100
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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And what happens when they anchor or slip next to your new 62? And I'm still waiting for you to push them in the direction of a certain Oyster 53 you have for sale.


You know, if they bought it ďrightĒ Iíd bet they would have a much better boat, that would suffer far less depreciation in five years.

Of course if they didnít buy it right, then not.
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Old 28-08-2018, 16:28   #101
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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What happens if there's a major stock market correction the year after you buy your boat, and the return is -10% or -20%? Will you be able to make payments on your boat loan, and cover all your other expenses? Before committing to this course of action, you really need to:

1. Read up on what happened before and during the 2008 crash (the year the S&P500 had a return of -37%), and how millions of peoples' exuberance led them to make the same sort of decision you're proposing making, and how it all ended in tears.


2. Read up on the dangers of leveraged investments, and how a small drop in asset values can bankrupt you.


3. Discuss your plans with a professional financial advisor.

1. I posted a screenshot of my account in 2008 with a 12% gain.
2. Trailing stop loss
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Old 28-08-2018, 16:31   #102
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Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

After we sold our house and farm but were still waiting to cruise, we rented a house, to find out that the rental housing market if you will was strong, very strong. Rental prices were considerably higher than loan payments would be. But every third house was for sale, you couldnít give one away.
I couldnít figure that out, with interest rates being so low, why wouldnít people just buy? Only a very few were like me, renting only short time.

Well, what I found out was there are apparently quite a few people that lost their houses etc in the crash of 08, and they canít buy, I guess they donít have the credit.
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Old 28-08-2018, 16:32   #103
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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You seem very bitter. Why so negative towards everyone?
Not bitter or negative, just not trying to encourage failure.
I find when reading emails texts etc the reader tends to project their own outlook into how they interpret the context of the message.
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Old 28-08-2018, 16:36   #104
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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You know, if they bought it ďrightĒ Iíd bet they would have a much better boat, that would suffer far less depreciation in five years.

Of course if they didnít buy it right, then not.
Absolutely
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Old 28-08-2018, 16:43   #105
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
That is just it, they arenít buying, they are borrowing.
That is a completely different thing entirely. When you buy and for whatever reason things get tough, you can anchor out and spend next to nothing until you recover, if you have big bills that have to be paid every month and things get tough, well itís how Iíve watched people ďloseĒ their houses etc.
People that a few months ago were telling me how I was a fool for owning, donít buy, invest that money, you make money that way.
Yeah right, all those tense of millions of dollars of money loaned out donít make money for those banks, they are stupid, they donít know what they are doing.
Itís like buy a time share, have others pay for a Vacation home you couldnít afford otherwise.
Its also dangerous to assume that a 300K boat wont require any big ticket item replacements within your cruising timeline. Like say forgetting to check your oil or hydrolocking and killing your engine and requiring a major rebuild or full replacement etc. Is there a 10-20K line item in your budget for that? Insurance wont cover that.
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