Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

[Fore and Aft]

Have you read the blog “Growing a pair”? That family borrowed 90,000 pounds and have got themselves into a world of trouble.
They are complete newbies and have no idea. The first blog post was all the usual stuff you are parroting and now 8 posts later they are starting to get a huge dose of reality.
I am wondering now if they will do the easy bit and sail around the world....LOL
Cheers

[Factor]

Originally Posted by rbk

chances are you’ll end up with that cat upside down somewhere.

Utter dribble

[Sojourner]

Here are a bunch of random morning coffee thoughts from someone who's done something like what you are shooting for:

1) It sounds like both of you are already well positioned to have passive/active remote income when you're on the boat. In short, GREAT! At your age, that's enviable and impressive. We have a little as well, which is what gives us freedom too. Defo focus on getting that set up as bulletproof as you can before you set out...you don't need money to be happy, but it sure helps. Freedom? I've motorcycled all my life for this reason, did some huge rides (Europe from Spain to Turkey; Italy to Arctic; Key West to LA etc) and I thought I knew freedom. Nope. I just sold my bike. This is way better (also I needed the cash. See No2 below )

2) On that note, yeah, boats will cost a bunch. But you can also carefully buy an older boat. Why? Because on a sailboat everything will need changing/upgrading/refurbishing about every decade as a rule of thumb. Electronics, sails, rigging, you name it. In our case, we bought a 1991, but the hull was solid, and the PO replaced or redid almost everything 2 years before. You can EASILY find a newish ex charter boat (most often Jennie or bennie or bavaria it seems) for very cheap, and then you realize that everything needs changing out.

3) On cat choice, I'm not a cat hater at all. They have some advantages that I see. But you can get much more mono for the buck, so you can buy a bigger boat (arguably safer and more comfortable at sea) for the same money, or a similar boat and save 50k for your sailing kitty/reserve fund or upgrades. I personally love the tucked-in feeling of being below in our Amel... when I want the view, i'm outside on the sundeck or cockpit (95% of the time anyway). Hell, we have a movie projector up there, I'm not worried the downstairs hasn't got picture windows

4) Yeah, we're doing the Youtube thing, and yeah, like the others say, it's a crowded field. Niche is everything. In our case, we're lucky that we have a lot of seriously loyal market segments that have been giving us a lot of love so far. (We're a young, queer poly throuple sailing with three kittens chasing a solar eclipse in the middle of the pacific for our first mission.... that's a decent hand to play from ) Focus on differentiating yourself somehow, anyhow. But you already know that from your marketing work I'm certain.... Ultimately all the videos and instagram stuff should be fun, something for you and your friends. Have enough reserve and online work that you don't need it, and if you're lucky, it'll snowball into something profitable. But don't start out relying on it.

5) Internet.... there are a couple devices we use and have set up for the big trip next month. For coastal work and at anchor (which we'll be doing most of the time; i'm not bloody moitissier for gods sake, though you should read everything that man ever wrote) we have a Solis Skyroam. Nice little orange piece of chinese tech. Basically anywhere in the world that has cell service, within a minute of turning it on, it emulates a synthetic sim card and connects to the strongest carrier. With our plan, it's 80 bucks a month for high speed unlimited data and voice service for five different devices simultaneously and wirelessly. So I hit the thing when we pull in somewhere, and all three of us have our phones or laptops up and running before the coffee has brewed. Offshore, it's much pricier. We have a sat phone for emergencies, SSB for weather, but get a garmin Inreach. Google it, unlimited texts and SOS worldwide for 50 bucks a month. Weather service on it too, but no data. But then again, if you can't go 10 or 20 days once in a while without internet, well.... Oh, also look at getting a BadBoy internet stealer Anchor somewhere, dinghy to the nearest bar and get their wifi code, and the badboy will pipe it throughout the boat. Alternatively, there are apps that will give you the passwords anywhere you are, so you don't even have to go ashore.

Anyway this is getting long and I'm out of coffee so I'll wrap this up We're just starting out ourselves, but I think we're more similar than not...hit us up if you have any questions, and good luck!

[Budawang]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

We have lived aboard and cruised now on 10th year and with that experience Im going to give you some advice that you may not want to hear.

I see way too many Cruisers in planning making their cruising plans based on the boat and your desire to have a lithium ion battery Bank on a boat you don't even have yet to me is the completely wrong mindset. Not because a catamaran and the lithium-ion battery Bank isn't good, but because you're defining your dream in the first few paragraphs by the boat and its systems.

I think the higher percentage of successful people that actually pull the dream off do it with minimal debt and on a more modest less expensive boat. (Are you ready for a $1000/mo boat insurance bill?) Facebook and all these cruising chat rooms are filled with people with similar dreams that never get past a dream stage because they can't make it work financially.... don't fall into that trap.

For $100,000 you can have a great cruising boat with all the gear you need and get out there doing it making money remotely building your credibility and experience and then deciding what boat you really want to have longer term if this dream works out to be something you want. And from a marketing perspective there's a lot more people out there that want to see cruising done on a budget on a normal boat that normal people can afford, than want to watch and follow another couple doing something unattainable to them.

I know nobody wants to hear this advice but I stand in the boat show booth year after year talking to some of the same Cruisers in planning that tell me just one more year just one more year just one more year of saving and I'll be able to live my dream. The problem is life gets in the way and the majority of these dreamers never actually make it. Don't let that happen to you unless maybe this lifestyle isn't for you...the preparation phase weeds out a lot of people who really aren't dedicated to the idea and are willing to do what it takes to make it happen. If money and earning it is an issue get rid of that issue by going on a simpler smaller boat. The vast majority of Cruisers are on monos not catamarans simply from a budget standpoint. Get out there sooner than later and start having the time of your lives you can always upgrade to a different boat but you're not going to get your youth back trust me on this. It's a common discussion out here amongst the Cruisers that made it that after they've been out here they wish they would have got out here sooner.....

Great luck on your dream and adventure just don't get trapped in thinking that there's only one way to make the dream happen... and that way costs a lot of money because it doesn't or at least it doesn't have to.

Great post. I couldn't agree more. If you think you need a big expensive boat to enjoy cruising then it's unlikely to be for you. The cruising lifestyle is best seen as a vocation and the boat is just the means to make it happen.

[KingGuppy]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

We have lived aboard and cruised now on 10th year and with that experience Im going to give you some advice that you may not want to hear.

I see way too many Cruisers in planning making their cruising plans based on the boat and your desire to have a lithium ion battery Bank on a boat you don't even have yet to me is the completely wrong mindset. Not because a catamaran and the lithium-ion battery Bank isn't good, but because you're defining your dream in the first few paragraphs by the boat and its systems.

I think the higher percentage of successful people that actually pull the dream off do it with minimal debt and on a more modest less expensive boat. (Are you ready for a $1000/mo boat insurance bill?) Facebook and all these cruising chat rooms are filled with people with similar dreams that never get past a dream stage because they can't make it work financially.... don't fall into that trap.

For $100,000 you can have a great cruising boat with all the gear you need and get out there doing it making money remotely building your credibility and experience and then deciding what boat you really want to have longer term if this dream works out to be something you want. And from a marketing perspective there's a lot more people out there that want to see cruising done on a budget on a normal boat that normal people can afford, than want to watch and follow another couple doing something unattainable to them.

I know nobody wants to hear this advice but I stand in the boat show booth year after year talking to some of the same Cruisers in planning that tell me just one more year just one more year just one more year of saving and I'll be able to live my dream. The problem is life gets in the way and the majority of these dreamers never actually make it. Don't let that happen to you unless maybe this lifestyle isn't for you...the preparation phase weeds out a lot of people who really aren't dedicated to the idea and are willing to do what it takes to make it happen. If money and earning it is an issue get rid of that issue by going on a simpler smaller boat. The vast majority of Cruisers are on monos not catamarans simply from a budget standpoint. Get out there sooner than later and start having the time of your lives you can always upgrade to a different boat but you're not going to get your youth back trust me on this. It's a common discussion out here amongst the Cruisers that made it that after they've been out here they wish they would have got out here sooner.....

Great luck on your dream and adventure just don't get trapped in thinking that there's only one way to make the dream happen... and that way costs a lot of money because it doesn't or at least it doesn't have to.

You're certainly right. We could end up like all of those still waiting at the docks, but we're hoping we break free. Thats why its still just a dream. All we can do is keep making steps towards it happening and hope it does.

The battery bank is required for us to be able to work, which gives us the income to pay for the boat. It's 100% necessity for this to happen.

Have you done Caribbean and Mediterranean in those 10 years? Can you share your thoughts on both of them.

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

Like a couple of other posters above who have cruised, and have talked to many many people who are excited about cruising, but will never leave the dock, my advice is forget about the boat for the moment. Focus more on finding out if you like sailing, and if you do, getting a bit of experience so you can make the right decisions about the right boat, gear and location for you at some point in the future.

There are some advantages to learning to sail a little boat first, but it is a slow path, and not compulsory. The thing I would focus on is getting some time on cruising boats, monohulls and catamarans. Either charter, which is not the same, but still valuable, or even better crew a passage on someone else's boat, or just do some racing locally. Every minute on the water helps.

Try and forget about buying your way to safety with electronics and gear. Yes the right gear helps, but the number one thing for safety is your attitude, skills and experience. Spend your money on building those, rather than getting gear. One approach to that is to buy a learner boat, sail the sails off of that for a couple of years, and then sell it and buy the boat you want to go cruising on. That way you will build the skills and experience to help you get to the dream.

Don't get me wrong - the dream is a good one and achievable. Just focus on yourselves before you focus on the boat and the technology.

Mark

We've ridden on a lot of monohulls before and don't have nearly as much interest in those. Crewing someone elses cat is a great idea, which we may take up in the future.

[KingGuppy]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Have you read the blog “Growing a pair”? That family borrowed 90,000 pounds and have got themselves into a world of trouble.
They are complete newbies and have no idea. The first blog post was all the usual stuff you are parroting and now 8 posts later they are starting to get a huge dose of reality.
I am wondering now if they will do the easy bit and sail around the world....LOL
Cheers

I'm going to read up on their adventure. Thanks for sharing it.

Originally Posted by Factor

Utter dribble

I hope so too! Dont want to flip!

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Here are a bunch of random morning coffee thoughts from someone who's done something like what you are shooting for:

1) It sounds like both of you are already well positioned to have passive/active remote income when you're on the boat. In short, GREAT! At your age, that's enviable and impressive. We have a little as well, which is what gives us freedom too. Defo focus on getting that set up as bulletproof as you can before you set out...you don't need money to be happy, but it sure helps. Freedom? I've motorcycled all my life for this reason, did some huge rides (Europe from Spain to Turkey; Italy to Arctic; Key West to LA etc) and I thought I knew freedom. Nope. I just sold my bike. This is way better (also I needed the cash. See No2 below )

2) On that note, yeah, boats will cost a bunch. But you can also carefully buy an older boat. Why? Because on a sailboat everything will need changing/upgrading/refurbishing about every decade as a rule of thumb. Electronics, sails, rigging, you name it. In our case, we bought a 1991, but the hull was solid, and the PO replaced or redid almost everything 2 years before. You can EASILY find a newish ex charter boat (most often Jennie or bennie or bavaria it seems) for very cheap, and then you realize that everything needs changing out.

3) On cat choice, I'm not a cat hater at all. They have some advantages that I see. But you can get much more mono for the buck, so you can buy a bigger boat (arguably safer and more comfortable at sea) for the same money, or a similar boat and save 50k for your sailing kitty/reserve fund or upgrades. I personally love the tucked-in feeling of being below in our Amel... when I want the view, i'm outside on the sundeck or cockpit (95% of the time anyway). Hell, we have a movie projector up there, I'm not worried the downstairs hasn't got picture windows

4) Yeah, we're doing the Youtube thing, and yeah, like the others say, it's a crowded field. Niche is everything. In our case, we're lucky that we have a lot of seriously loyal market segments that have been giving us a lot of love so far. (We're a young, queer poly throuple sailing with three kittens chasing a solar eclipse in the middle of the pacific for our first mission.... that's a decent hand to play from ) Focus on differentiating yourself somehow, anyhow. But you already know that from your marketing work I'm certain.... Ultimately all the videos and instagram stuff should be fun, something for you and your friends. Have enough reserve and online work that you don't need it, and if you're lucky, it'll snowball into something profitable. But don't start out relying on it.

5) Internet.... there are a couple devices we use and have set up for the big trip next month. For coastal work and at anchor (which we'll be doing most of the time; i'm not bloody moitissier for gods sake, though you should read everything that man ever wrote) we have a Solis Skyroam. Nice little orange piece of chinese tech. Basically anywhere in the world that has cell service, within a minute of turning it on, it emulates a synthetic sim card and connects to the strongest carrier. With our plan, it's 80 bucks a month for high speed unlimited data and voice service for five different devices simultaneously and wirelessly. So I hit the thing when we pull in somewhere, and all three of us have our phones or laptops up and running before the coffee has brewed. Offshore, it's much pricier. We have a sat phone for emergencies, SSB for weather, but get a garmin Inreach. Google it, unlimited texts and SOS worldwide for 50 bucks a month. Weather service on it too, but no data. But then again, if you can't go 10 or 20 days once in a while without internet, well.... Oh, also look at getting a BadBoy internet stealer Anchor somewhere, dinghy to the nearest bar and get their wifi code, and the badboy will pipe it throughout the boat. Alternatively, there are apps that will give you the passwords anywhere you are, so you don't even have to go ashore.

Anyway this is getting long and I'm out of coffee so I'll wrap this up We're just starting out ourselves, but I think we're more similar than not...hit us up if you have any questions, and good luck!

REALLY appreciate the time it took you to write all this up. Excellent info in here we'll definitely use. Specially all the tech suggestions. Any other gear you recommend?

We're going to sub your YouTube channel and watch it all this afternoon.

I like the idea of going for an older boat, but im not sure which Cat's would be best to look at for older models. I did see a 2001 that looked great and was DRASTICALLY less than everything else i'd been looking at. Even if we had to redo nearly everything, it was still cheaper.

[riki]

Mate, i can't understand one point and please don't misunderstand me because it's said in a friendly manner and no harsh behaviour intended: if you got 300k, why the hell you want to spend them all in your first boat instead of spending 100k, get a more than decent cat for 2 and save 200k for what ever.
I had a similar budget and similar target but instead of thinking to spend all that amount and then struggle to enjoy sailing, i decided to spend the biggest % of my savings in real estate that i will easy rent and finance my sailors plans. Ok, the boat i'll buy will never be nice and shiny as a 300k one, but at least i won't become a slave of anything just to "maintain the dream" that might quickly become a nightmare.

[jharding]

This is a great adventure you will do. you need to get off the internet and get out on the water, take a week long sailing class where you live on the boat. I took Blue water sailing school,Loved it. You will learn more in a week on a boat with a experienced pro than you can in a year on the internet. I took two different week long classes, one on a monohull and one on a Cat. Doing deliveries is another great way to learn, get out on the water. You will find a lot of things you thought were important are not. It's a great life get going.

[KingGuppy]

Originally Posted by jharding

This is a great adventure you will do. you need to get off the internet and get out on the water, take a week long sailing class where you live on the boat. I took Blue water sailing school,Loved it. You will learn more in a week on a boat with a experienced pro than you can in a year on the internet. I took two different week long classes, one on a monohull and one on a Cat. Doing deliveries is another great way to learn, get out on the water. You will find a lot of things you thought were important are not. It's a great life get going.

Blue Water Sailing school is the one we plan doing as well! I've only heard great things about them. We can't go yet because of dealing with work, but we plan on it early 2019. We're looking for other opportunities to get out on the water before then though.

[bcboomer]

"The battery bank is required for us to be able to work, which gives us the income to pay for the boat. It's 100% necessity for this to happen."

This is an example of the kind of thinking that will trip you up. Most successful sailing bloggers have done without lithium for years. You don't need lithium to have 1000 amp hrs and you won't need the distraction of caring for it.
Don't make decisions like this until you have more experience.

Reread Rich's post and take it to heart.

Another way to get an idea if sailing is for you is a "cruise and learn".
Very popular here and a great way to get enough basic experience so that you can then bare-boat charter.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by riki

if you got 300k, why the hell you want to spend them all in your first boat instead of spending 100k.

you got it right mate. if you both are working it is a good time to start stashing away money. downsize and simplify now before you think about living the dream. charter a boat for 2 weeks and see what you think about that. you may decide not to pay the premium for a catamaran. also .. once you cut the cord to the shore there may not be a path back to what was .. both personally and professionally.

[salfarina]

All of the above replies are really very sage advice, especially rbk's, third day and mark morewood. I suggest you blend these ideas and I would add that since you are in Florida, a well found starter boat in the 30 - 36 ft. range would get you into the Bahama's almost immediately to start your cruising adventures. This would also serve to introduce you into the cruising community and provide an opportunity to meet, discuss and learn (first hand) from them - all the while either confirming or re-evaluating the thoughts you so succinctly listed in your original post. When the appropriate time comes to upgrade, you'll benefit by 1) - Being closer to the available stock of mono's or cats 2) - Know what services you'll need and their costs and 3)- You'd probably be able to sell your starter boat at a premium because you've made it a proven cruiser.
All the best and my sincere best wishes that you attain your dream very soon!

[KingGuppy]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

"The battery bank is required for us to be able to work, which gives us the income to pay for the boat. It's 100% necessity for this to happen."

This is an example of the kind of thinking that will trip you up. Most successful sailing bloggers have done without lithium for years. You don't need lithium to have 1000 amp hrs and you won't need the distraction of caring for it.
Don't make decisions like this until you have more experience.

Reread Rich's post and take it to heart.

Another way to get an idea if sailing is for you is a "cruise and learn".
Very popular here and a great way to get enough basic experience so that you can then bare-boat charter.

Agree'd. We may not need the lithium, but will need a lot of power somehow.

We're not travel bloggers yet. We run marketing businesses with clients that require us to do computer work daily. Without power, we won't be able to earn an income and pay for things.

We definitely are looking into ways of cruising and learning before going all in. Great advice.

[In Training]

Going to address the renting out your house part.

My husband and I have rentals. We will not purchase our boat until they are sold.

While the $ 1,800 a month income sounds good with only $ 1,000 going out -- remember that it only takes one bad renter to really trash the place into the thousands. If one stops paying, it may take a month to evict them, after they haven't paid for 2 months, then take 3-4 months to get a GOOD tenant. You will have that $ 1,000 to shell out while it is empty. Nothing like having boat and house payments.

You will no longer be there to paint in between renters, but all repairs will have to be done by someone else. This will cost you more than you expect. The management companies take a percentage just to collect the rent, sign up the tenant and hire the workmen.
You have to pay all materials and labor. Why not sell the house and use the funds to pay cash for a used boat. No worries, no phone calls requiring you to fly back to take care of anything.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Factor

Utter dribble

This has nothing to do with cats but entirely that they have admittedly ZERO experience sailing or boating for that matter. It would only take a good breeze or an unexpected squall, surfing a wave etc with too much sail to get them in a bad situation. Not knowing when to reef, how much sail, changing conditions, all the things that come with experience on the water.