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Old 28-03-2014, 19:41   #61
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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What's FP? The manufacture?

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FP= Fountaine Pajot, Manufacturer
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Old 28-03-2014, 20:22   #62
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Re: Osmosis treatment

It might be more clear to refer to this bad lamination as what it is: a series of voids introduced at the time of layup.

While I prefer a boat made entirely of epoxy resin, the resin has nothing to do with any voids above the waterline.

"Osmosis" cannot take place above the waterline. You need water, chemicals (styrene) present in resin, etc, to have osmosis.

These sound like voids left during the manufacturing process that work over time to grow larger.
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Old 28-03-2014, 20:42   #63
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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Originally Posted by oceannavigator View Post
It might be more clear to refer to this bad lamination as what it is: a series of voids introduced at the time of layup.

While I prefer a boat made entirely of epoxy resin, the resin has nothing to do with any voids above the waterline.

"Osmosis" cannot take place above the waterline. You need water, chemicals (styrene) present in resin, etc, to have osmosis.

These sound like voids left during the manufacturing process that work over time to grow larger.


Exactly.
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Old 29-03-2014, 06:59   #64
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Re: Osmosis treatment

Thank you Factor

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Old 30-03-2014, 19:29   #65
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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Originally Posted by azsailor12 View Post
I think that it would be unusual for blisters to develop in only 3-4 years, so I wouldn't have bought it either.
My thoughts exactly. We have supposedly learned how to build better boats. My Camper Nicholson had to have a new bottom after 30 years and they, like many built in the 70s to 80s had a bad reputation for blisters. I would have nothing to do with a boat so poorly engineered.
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Old 30-03-2014, 23:34   #66
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Seawind have never used polyester below the waterline. Im pretty sure that Lightwave are the same.
I was poking around a Seawind at recent boat show. I am always interested in construction techniques, that to mind are so important, but tend to be completely glossed over in the brochures.

I was told it was polyester resin inside the foam core with no mention of a switch below the waterline, but this may well be wrong.

I think it's vital we get an accurate understanding of how a boat is built. Many prospective boat buyers simply don't ask the fundamental questions. It is sometimes very hard to find the correct information, even when direct inquires are made.

Boat manufacturers would be encouraged to use the best materials (such as epoxy resins) if they thought the boat buying public cared.

Then we could forget about osmosis.
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Old 31-03-2014, 00:11   #67
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I was poking around a Seawind at recent boat show. I am always interested in construction techniques, that to mind are so important, but tend to be completely glossed over in the brochures.

I was told it was polyester resin inside the foam core with no mention of a switch below the waterline, but this may well be wrong.

I think it's vital we get an accurate understanding of how a boat is built. Many prospective boat buyers simply don't ask the fundamental questions. It is sometimes very hard to find the correct information, even when direct inquires are made.

Boat manufacturers would be encouraged to use the best materials (such as epoxy resins) if they thought the boat buying public cared.

Then we could forget about osmosis.
I imagine Seawind and Lightwave use vinyl ester resins below the waterline.

There are not too many manufacturers that use only epoxy however desirable.

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Old 31-03-2014, 00:15   #68
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Re: Osmosis treatment

Watch that ambiguous wording in the brochures, many manufacterers who make it sound as if they are building in vinylester are actually only switching to a vinylester gelcoat, the resin system is still the same.
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Old 31-03-2014, 00:22   #69
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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Watch that ambiguous wording in the brochures, many manufacterers who make it sound as if they are building in vinylester are actually only switching to a vinylester gelcoat, the resin system is still the same.
+1
This is part of the problem. Many builders use some vinylester resin below the waterline and after some marketing spin it is easy to be left with impression that only vinylester is used when the reality is that a lot of the layup below the waterline is still polyester.

It is sometimes hard to find out the right information even asking the dealer a direct question.

Rather than just the dealers fault it indicates to me the boat buying public are not asking these basic questions about how the boat is built.
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Old 31-03-2014, 08:50   #70
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Re: Osmosis treatment

A lot depends on how the treatment was done, if properly then yes the treatment would be an asset. My boat had bad osmosis when I bought it, factored into the price. In this case, the osmosis was CAUSED by the treatment. The previous owner was advised by the yard doing other work soon after he bought it, that while they were at it, 6 coats of treatment would be good. So, they hauled the boat, sanded it and applied the paint, the boat was straight out of the water and so the paint trapped the moisture in, and the problem developed from there! That was a particularly stupid application, but it took a lot of solving!
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Old 31-03-2014, 14:11   #71
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I was poking around a Seawind at recent boat show. I am always interested in construction techniques, that to mind are so important, but tend to be completely glossed over in the brochures.

I was told it was polyester resin inside the foam core with no mention of a switch below the waterline, but this may well be wrong.

I think it's vital we get an accurate understanding of how a boat is built. Many prospective boat buyers simply don't ask the fundamental questions. It is sometimes very hard to find the correct information, even when direct inquires are made.

Boat manufacturers would be encouraged to use the best materials (such as epoxy resins) if they thought the boat buying public cared.

Then we could forget about osmosis.
Which boat show? and Who was doing the telling?

Here is what the Specification sheet says, which is freely available to boat show going public and is handed out with every brochure (well every boat show I have been at for the last 4 years)

Quote:
Hull Laminate: Vinyl Ester resin is used in manufacture of the hulls for the fibreglass laminate between the gelcoat and the foam core. Laminate specifications are as approved by NSW Maritime Authority to meet Australian Survey Standards.
No Seawind has been recorded with osmosis ever.

I can't see large scale production builders using epoxy the OH&S implications and the possibility of some production staff becoming epoxy sensitive is fundamentally what will inhibit its use in large scale operations. Obviously its good stuff, but it does have its downsides in a build environment.
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Old 31-03-2014, 14:39   #72
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Re: Osmosis treatment

We owned a 1996 and 1995 Seawind 1000. No sign of osmosis on either. Also all the holes for thru hulls had the core removed around them and were epoxy and micro balloon filled.


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Old 31-03-2014, 16:35   #73
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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It is EXTREMELY unusual for blistering to develop above the waterline. Personally, I would consider it a large plus for any particular boat to know that it had been peeled and treated.
We saw this on a Venezia . structural or not it looked awful. So e of the blisters stuck out 1/2"!!

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Old 31-03-2014, 17:13   #74
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Which boat show? and Who was doing the telling?

Here is what the Specification sheet says, which is freely available to boat show going public and is handed out with every brochure (well every boat show I have been at for the last 4 years)



No Seawind has been recorded with osmosis ever.

I can't see large scale production builders using epoxy the OH&S implications and the possibility of some production staff becoming epoxy sensitive is fundamentally what will inhibit its use in large scale operations. Obviously its good stuff, but it does have its downsides in a build environment.
Yeah, one has only to look up the Congressional record.. or?..maybe the "Hall of Records for Boat Osmosis" and this would be clear! haha Where are these records kept anyway? I tried to look up the record for one of my old blister boats but couldnt find it..?
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Old 31-03-2014, 23:18   #75
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Question Re: Osmosis treatment

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Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
We saw this on a Venezia . structural or not it looked awful. So e of the blisters stuck out 1/2"!!

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Hello ,
This is my first go at this , having recently sold my monohull I am now looking at joining the Catamaran community and had considered Fountaine Pajot as a possible " supplier" . I was thinking about an Athena or a Venezia , I must admit that following the various discussiions on this thread I am now rethinking my whole approach as it would appear that there is a definite problem with Fountaine in regard to either structural or Aesthetic issues with blisters .
Many thanks to all .
best regards & happy sailing

One confused matroos
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