Osmosis treatment

[neilpride]

Sounds to me a upset Fp Agent, broker !!!

[Le Doume]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Sounds to me a upset Fp Agent, broker !!!

You've got it in one , I would say agent , funny thing is , he joined today and this is his 1 st post .
As someone famous once said " the pen is mightier than the sword "
Looks like he is upset , and I am sorry if I am the cause of this .

[yeloya]

[QUOTE=Le Doume;1503702]Gentlemen ,
You are going way " off course " here , this thread was not about the local distributor or the response to warranty issue by FP , it was about a " lack of disclosure " of the problem at the time of negotiation , and we know what close ties Gordon has with the Australian distributor and will keep this in mind when reading is " unbiased opinion" , but no matter what you are saying , FP has had , and still has an osmosis issue with their product , I have seen a lipari with it , a Salina , Mahe , and I have it in good authority ( insider information ) that yes shock horror , Helias are also affected .
So happy sailing and fair wind to all , by the way , in the manufacturer's section of the forum , under Foutaine Pajot , you will find a post with an attachment that should be welcomed by all with an " affected" boat
Cheers


You are saying that you have seen a Lipari affected and that you also know by insider info that Helias are also affected.
Well, we have two Liparis, first one from 2010 and there is no sign of osmosis or whatsoever. I don't say it won't happen , I simply say that we haven't seen yet. We haven't heard any either. It may develop in the future, but our experience is that ,if it doesn't show up the first 3-4 years, never happens later. I have never seen any FP that is older than 5 years affected of osmosis.
I don't know who yr internal connection in FP is but I am fully ensured by the factory that this won't happen on Helia. We have #1, yes she is too new yet, but no sign at all..OInb the other hand, if this happen on the Helia, I can tell you that the company will be for sale shortly..

Cheers

Yeloya

[Cheechako]

Definitely a boat you run , not walk , away from!

[robert sailor]

Is there something unique about the way Cats are built that if there are no signs of blistering within 5 years the likely hood of future osmosis is near nill.
If they are built like mono hulls then I can tell you from personal experience that monos blister after 5 years or 10 years or 20 years and it was common. All boats built with epoxy or vinylester resins are less likely to have osmosis problems.

[colemj]

No, there is no difference in fiberglass construction between mono and cat in this regards. Both can blister whenever and for various reasons.

Mark

[smj]

My guess is the older the boat or the longer it stays in the water the better chance of osmosis. Why a boat over 5 years old would have less chance of osmosis I don't know.


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[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by smj

My guess is the older the boat or the longer it stays in the water the better chance of osmosis. Why a boat over 5 years old would have less chance of osmosis I don't know.


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Some boats are just blister prone and some arent. I suppose one could say if a boat has made it 5? 7? 10? years without it's not prone. Some merit to the thought of "the longer in the water the more likely to have blisters" though too. Glass layup does absorb water. Yet... there are some really old 70's boats that just dont have them.
Personally I think the dry layup resin infusion process manufacturers are in love with is just for cost savings. I find it hard to believe those samples I see at boat shows arent going to absorb water like a sponge. Yeah, the resin is in there, but it's not like heavily infused like an old boat. Maybe those old 70's boats with the over abundance of resin had something going for them.... will a 1" cube of hardened resin dropped into water absorb more water than one with a lot of glass fiber in it? I dont think so....

[Wonderinlost]

What's FP? The manufacture?

wondering around with no destionation

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Some boats are just blister prone and some arent. I suppose one could say if a boat has made it 5? 7? 10? years without it's not prone. Some merit to the thought of "the longer in the water the more likely to have blisters" though too. Glass layup does absorb water. Yet... there are some really old 70's boats that just dont have them.
Personally I think the dry layup resin infusion process manufacturers are in love with is just for cost savings. I find it hard to believe those samples I see at boat shows arent going to absorb water like a sponge. Yeah, the resin is in there, but it's not like heavily infused like an old boat. Maybe those old 70's boats with the over abundance of resin had something going for them.... will a 1" cube of hardened resin dropped into water absorb more water than one with a lot of glass fiber in it? I dont think so....

Resin infusion is also done for lowering emissions, but it is mostly done for strength/weight reasons. Resin rich boats are very weak structures, thus the greater than 1" thick layups one sees in 70's boats.

Most blisters are in gelcoat, and all water has to pass through gelcoat to get to the fabric.

Gelcoat is nothing but solid resin with color tint.

There are tons of 1970's boats being hauled out almost daily here in the Rio Dulce Guatemala with severe blistering - some requiring many layers of laminate to be taken off. There is something about having these boats in warm fresh water that really gets the blistering going.

Mark

[Cheechako]

My experience on three blister boats is they were all in the glass. Many were up to 1/4" in. One boat was all the way through! (had blisters in the bilge also) I would call blisters in the gel incidental and not a big worry. When it starts wicking into the glass.. then I worry.
yeah, the warm water does seem to get them going for sure.

[colemj]

My point was that the water had to pass through solid resin to get to the glass layer.

Actually, most that do blister past the gelcoat are only in the first layer of CSM. This also is nothing to worry about since the only purpose of that layer is to prevent print-though of the structural glass behind it.

Were your blister boats older boats?

Mark

[Cheechako]

two 1985 and one 1974. One '85 wasnt that deep. Other two pretty bad. My understanding is that gel is more porous than regular resin due to the solids added for coloring..? The '74 wasnt a very heavily laid up boat, especially for the 70's, but reportedly it was actually laid up shortly after the gas crisis... thus they tried to save glass and resin... who knows what they used for resin... maybe they tried something cheap!

[Le Doume]

Sorry about the typo error , sometime the iPad modify sentences without me realising it ,

Originally Posted by Le Doume

Ho dear , here we go

YES it is a true story

Yes I do have a reasonable knowledge about boats , yes I did have a Lavezzi ,

Typing error this should have been YES I do KNOW quite a lot about FP warranty policies & procedures

YES my lavezzi was treated under warranty as the original owners wanted the problem fixed

NO I did not push my friend towards the Brand but provided him with advice on the various ( 3 ) boats that he was looking at

NO I did not buy my Lavezzi new

NO I did not buy it from the distributor

NO I am not upset just wanted to share the " experience " with some fellow sailors , by the way , your profile does not say much , what is your sailing vessel?

YES I do question their honesty as the issue of osmosis treatment was only brought up 24 hours after deposit was paid , you obviously have not read the full content of one of my previous thread !

What has happened with my " old boat " is nobody's business but mine and it's new owner .

The purpose of this thread is not to discuss my new choice in vessel and manufacturer

So happy sailing to you to my friend

Fair wind and stay out of trouble

[robert sailor]

From my knowledge the list of water types and blisters starts with cold salt water then cold fresh water to warm salt water and then warm fresh water. Its quite common for old boats to have no blisters in northern climes and then after a year in the southern warm water the blisters start.