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Old 20-03-2014, 20:50   #16
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Re: Osmosis treatment

No, two different problems. One is major osmosis bubbles below water, which is caused by lack of protective layers which are now done on all boats. The other is issues with the quality control on the layup which all manufacturers who do not use either a full epoxy or vinylester coat may suffer from.

The latter is rare and results in small blisters which are easily addressed. If you are going to worry about this then you need to invest big $$$ as said as most production builders don't provide all over epoxy or vinylester covers.
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Old 20-03-2014, 21:31   #17
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Re: Osmosis treatment

Is kind of a mistery, i see hulls peeled fairly dry, and local grinded spots in a Orana with no moisture or the tipical osmotic fluid smelling bad, just dry laminate,, and to be honest blisters under the bridgedeck are not caused by moisture or water intrusion... very curious....
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Old 20-03-2014, 21:44   #18
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Re: Osmosis treatment

Yes, I know the problem. None on my Orana, and I have yet to see a recent FP with this issue, as you say you have, but I have seen several monos with the issue.

It is all a matter of the care in which the polyester is laid up on manufacture. For instance, you will never see this on a Seawind or Lightwave as they have the full coating in the mix, but I have seen it on almost all older French production cats.

This problem will appear pretty quickly after manufacture so a full inspection on purchase will determine if there is any issues of this kind or has been as invariably you can see where the work has been done. Not that this would stop me from buying a boat (as the below water osmosis may), depending where the problem is situated.
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Old 21-03-2014, 06:16   #19
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Re: Osmosis treatment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Yeloya,

In your experience, just how far above the waterline do the osmosis blisters extend?

Thanks.

Ann
I've seen a few up to the under the bridge level.

"What surprised me about this is that this problem affected various different models in their range over several years and when they first became aware of it it seems like they did not make the appropriate changes in materials and production process to quickly correct it. Why did it continue to also affect new models that they released?"

This also surprises me. I've made this question several times to FP but couldn't get a satisying answer. They don't want to talk much about it and say that the matter is in law suit. (maybe by now this is over)
The models that were affected were Lavezzi, Mahe, Lipari, Orana. We also treated one Cumberland.

We have #1 and #5 Helia's here and so far there isn't any sign of blister. I was fully ensured that this problem was over with Helia's and I know that they have changed their supplier of resin.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 21-03-2014, 06:24   #20
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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Ho Dear , you will be forgiven for knowing very little about this particular manufacturer , it is EXTREMELY common to see this problem develop...
I appreciate the forgiveness and do admit to complete ignorance of this particular manufacturer. It would seem that they have (or had?) some sort of systemic problem with their layups. If that is the case then I, too, would avoid the boat. But then that would be a consequence of avoiding any boat by this manufacturer.
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Old 21-03-2014, 07:10   #21
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
It is all a matter of the care in which the polyester is laid up on manufacture. For instance, you will never see this on a Seawind or Lightwave as they have the full coating in the mix, but I have seen it on almost all older French production cats..
Seawind have never used polyester below the waterline. Im pretty sure that Lightwave are the same.
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Old 21-03-2014, 11:26   #22
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Re: Osmosis treatment

My work is done
Thank you to all who have engaged in this thread , having been a victim of FP's lack of care My sole intention was to bring awareness to our multihull sailing community , my Lavezzi had been treated with a bottom peel under warranty when owned by its original owner , I purchased the vessel 14 months later , within 8 months blisters stated to appear on both hulls and I was informed then that this was only Aesthetic , well some of us , and me in particular , care about what our boats look like , and unfortunately te issue needs to be fixed at great expense before reselling the boat ( don't I know it ! )
I have now changed brand , and for the rest of my sailing days will warn fellow sailors who are thinking of buying FP's product as unfortunately , the brokers , and the appointed FP's distributor will shy away from ever discussing this problem
Happy sailing and fair wind to all
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Old 21-03-2014, 16:03   #23
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Re: Osmosis treatment

Two points.

It has been my experience that FP distributor in Australia has never shied away from the problem and are fully open to discussion on the matter. I can well understand the frustration of owners affected by this problem, but at the end of the day the distributor can only deal with the problem openly and honestly, and they have organised several bottom peels for owners at FP cost. I have nothing to do with FP or Multihulls.

Further, its worth mentioning that Outremer are only polyester above waterline.

Andrew

I did not mean to imply that SW or LW used polyester below waterline. Rather that osmosis above waterline is extremely unlikely due to vinylester in mix.
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Old 21-03-2014, 17:20   #24
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Osmosis treatment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Doume View Post
My work is done
Thank you to all who have engaged in this thread , having been a victim of FP's lack of care My sole intention was to bring awareness to our multihull sailing community , my Lavezzi had been treated with a bottom peel under warranty when owned by its original owner , I purchased the vessel 14 months later , within 8 months blisters stated to appear on both hulls and I was informed then that this was only Aesthetic , well some of us , and me in particular , care about what our boats look like , and unfortunately te issue needs to be fixed at great expense before reselling the boat ( don't I know it ! )
I have now changed brand , and for the rest of my sailing days will warn fellow sailors who are thinking of buying FP's product as unfortunately , the brokers , and the appointed FP's distributor will shy away from ever discussing this problem
Happy sailing and fair wind to all

I can certainly understand why you feel the way that you do. As I have said in my previous posts I just cannot understand why FP let this problem continue to occur across several different models over several years as the damage to their products reputation in the marketplace let alone the cost associated with the warranty claims would be huge. Unfortunately a lot of "mud" will stick to their reputation.

I really like the designs of the FP models that were affected by this issue and I much prefer them to their current designs. If I was considering one for purchase, as they are near the top of my favourites list, it would really concern me. Like Le Doume if I owned one and it had above water blisters I could not accept it just being aesthetic as like him I would not want my boat to look like that & I would have to fix it.

BTW - I am also aware of an owner of a 60ft Eleuthera which was also treated recently for blisters as well.
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Old 21-03-2014, 22:20   #25
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Re: Osmosis treatment

[QUOTE=cwjohm;1498562]Two points.

It has been my experience that FP distributor in Australia has never shied away from the problem and are fully open to discussion on the matter. I can well understand the frustration of owners affected by this problem, but at the end of the day the distributor can only deal with the problem openly and honestly, and they have organised several bottom peels for owners at FP cost. I have nothing to do with FP or Multihulls.

Maybe you should refer to my original thread , yes of course , the FP distributor in Australia have organised quite a few bottom peel ,this is not what was being raised here , but as far as being open and honest with the issue , my friend who was interested in the Mahe , signed a contract , paid a deposit , and for some unknown reason was advised of the bottom peel to treat Osmosis 24 hours later while questioning some of the discrepancies within the inventory .
This does raise an issue with openness and honesty in his view which is why he pulled out of the deal and got his deposit back .
Just thought that I needed to give you the " true story "
Farewell and happy sailing
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Old 21-03-2014, 22:36   #26
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Re: Osmosis treatment

I think I'd rather buy a boat from a manufacturer that can lay up fiberglass properly.
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Old 21-03-2014, 22:50   #27
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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I think I'd rather buy a boat from a manufacturer that can lay up fiberglass properly.



+1. All of FP's blister problems have nothing to do with resin type, they are the result of poor quality chopper gun layups. Just take a grinder to a blistered area of one and grind off the gel; you will find the laminate underneath is full of pinhole voids from air bubbles in the chop layup.
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Old 22-03-2014, 05:11   #28
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Re: Osmosis treatment

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A friend of mine was negotiating to purchase a 2010 Mahe , to his surprise he was informed that this vessel had been treated with a full bottom peel to rectify an osmosis problem , but that actually this was an " asset" and should provide him with peace of mind !
The broker was somewhat surprised that the sale fell through !?
I fully understand your original post above. Clearly, your friend was informed of the bottom peel and withdrew from the deal. I must have looked at 20 FPs and every time I walked on the boat I was informed of the osmosis problem prior to 2011 manufacture.

I
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Old 22-03-2014, 05:12   #29
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Re: Osmosis treatment

I wish your friend all the best in his search.
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Old 22-03-2014, 07:41   #30
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Re: Osmosis treatment

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
+1. All of FP's blister problems have nothing to do with resin type, they are the result of poor quality chopper gun layups. Just take a grinder to a blistered area of one and grind off the gel; you will find the laminate underneath is full of pinhole voids from air bubbles in the chop layup.
I won't argue the quality of the layup, but your assertion that they use chopper gun layups is wrong. They do not - they use full sheet fabrics with vacuum resin infusion. Do you have any actual evidence to support your chopper gun assertion?

Mark
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