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Old 15-12-2010, 17:03   #61
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Don't know what Outremer you're talking about, but they're not THAT fast.. I have thousands of miles in a 55L with the best rigging, sails, etc.. that money can buy. The acceleration is great and it surfs very well in steep breakers like what you might find in an inlet during a storm, BUT for the speed difference, maybe 2 kts (sometimes), I'll take the comfort. My narrow Irish ass is still soggy and sore from my last Atlantic crossing. The Atlantic 55 is the deal, or the Switch 55.. now that's a sweet ride that's beaten the Outremer many times. I just don't get the fascination with the OUtremer... it's just sooo bloody uncomfortable. Yeah it's fast, but so is a Hobie.
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Old 15-12-2010, 17:55   #62
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When you're talking sailboats 2 kts. Difference in speed is HUGE! That's 50 miles a day, 350miles a week or 1500 miles in a month of sailing. Sure ads up.
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Old 15-12-2010, 18:35   #63
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sounds like the same math I use to rationalize all sorts of stuff. Still, if I want fast I'll take the Switch or Atlantic in a heartbeat.... and still be faster. ... hey, you like what you like, right?
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Old 18-12-2010, 09:20   #64
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Somebody here is telling fibs! We say we want performance, but when we vote with cash, we say something different. There are only enough true performance aficionados around to (barely) support a tiny handful of builders. True performance implies sacrificing the mod-cons. If you can get great performance and luxury out of a very expensive boat, you could get even better performance out of the same boat after unloading some of the luxury!

So we are really just paying lip service to performance. Like Dodge Viper owners, we want the reputation of high performance, but we still drive within 10% of the speed limit 99% of the time, or we would lose the privilege to drive at all in all English speaking countries.

So its the image of performance we want. Filling up a nice performing boat with lots of heavy stuff does not compromise the image.

Do any of the races mentioned here have relevance? Probably not. Luck plays a bigger role in sailing than in any other competition. Witness the America's Cup. And while we think of a closed course race as the true measure for comparison, it is probably the least relevant to the type of sailing cruisers are interested in.

But still, and for no other reason than bragging rights, we need to decide what is truly a good measure of sailing performance. My question is this: can we come up with a set of objective parameters and RANK THEM in order of relevance? This assumes, unreasonably, that true numbers are available, based on precisely equal configurations, from scrupulously objective manufacturers, that Santa really exists, and the check is truly in the mail:

Is Sail Area to Displacement ratio more important than prismatic coefficient? Where does hull length to hull beam width fit into a hierarchy of measurements? Which measures provide clear distinctions rather than fractions of percentage differences?

Now I'll close with a last biased jab: If you wanted performance FIRST, would you choose stubby keels?
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Old 18-12-2010, 10:30   #65
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Originally Posted by sandy daugherty View Post


Is Sail Area to Displacement ratio more important than prismatic coefficient? Where does hull length to hull beam width fit into a hierarchy of measurements? Which measures provide clear distinctions rather than fractions of percentage differences?

Now I'll close with a last biased jab: If you wanted performance FIRST, would you choose stubby keels?

Yep.
......

PS: No stubby keels here.
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Old 18-12-2010, 12:50   #66
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The Lerouge designed cats seem to maintain really good performance with mini keels as do other designs. Would their performance be better with daggerboards? Yes but is the speed advantage worth some of the aggravations of daggerboards while cruising? For me possibly yes but for a lot of people no.
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Old 28-02-2011, 13:24   #67
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Re: Organizing the Cats by Performance

... and you left out MaineCat. Not enough of them made to be worth ranking, I guess. Top speed so far = 18 knots, but that's surfing. I've gone 15 for extended periods. 10-12 is normal on a reach. But plan on 6-7 for voyages, what with tacking, no wind, motoring, stopping to catch a fish, and motoring about the anchorage at both ends.
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Old 28-02-2011, 14:47   #68
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Re: Maine cat

Righto Tabby. Maine cat was a little too small of a company to fit the original discussion but I know they are a special boat although I've never been in one. They fit right in with alot of the smaller buiders who seem to have performance ranked higher than comfort. Switch, Freydis, Lightwave, Atlantic etc. Just curious if yours was actually ever weighed. I'm jealous. Meow
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Old 28-02-2011, 14:51   #69
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Re: Organizing the Cats by Performance

Weighed 16,000 lbs last year at the Travel lift in Trinidad.
Port Annapolis told us 20,000 lbs a few years earlier, so take that with a grain of salt!
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