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Old 19-10-2012, 00:35   #31
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Re: Oracle accident

Can't really compare as the sea states were different. One can't help wondering how TNZ would have handled the same state of waves against tide. Would be useful to have all the numbers.
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Old 20-10-2012, 14:04   #32
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Oracle AC72 Capsize America's Cup

There is too much weight in that mast and it is too tall.
These boats are so big now, that crew weight has become insignificant and can no longer be used to compensate. These boats are really on the edge.
I think they've gone over the top and have to scale back.
Capsize
It is really unfortunate the entire mast is in complete pieces, if they'd responded faster with big inflated balloons underneath the mast and then just towed it, they might have been able to recover it. Now they have nothing to test and learn on until 2013. Its a huge loss. I'd scale the mast back about 10% and depend on the guys skills to win.

What do you think?
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Old 20-10-2012, 14:36   #33
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Re: Oracle AC72 Capsize America's Cup

Pushing the envelope is inherently expensive but hey, it's not my money.
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Old 20-10-2012, 14:55   #34
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Re: Oracle AC72 Capsize America's Cup

Pitchpoling on high performance racing cats is pretty common. The difference is that the other race cats do not self-destruct.

The organizers will have to do some re-engineering in order to beef up these boats so they are more resistant to damage when capsizing or pitchpoling. Otherwise there will not be any boats to race. It is a good thing they are testing these boats well ahead of time.

I like that the racing is on the edge. It will more fun to watch....beats watching big heavy monohulls slog around the course.
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Old 22-10-2012, 14:46   #35
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Re: Oracle Accident

I agree David, I really enjoyed the AC45's because they produce a much faster show, and the format and analysis makes sailing more accessible to everyone. This sport has a half a chance now of getting more youngsters interested... Of course I am a speed freak and will take any chance I have to get in a cat or on a board and go...but I still think the AC72 are too aggressively designed given the consequences. That rig towers over the amas (just looking at it fore and aft) and pitchpoling is going to be a common event if they don't size rig down 10% or find some clever way to release energy and reduce weight (helium bags in the rig!! -seriously).

I read that the second one would be available in 2013, but someone else said they were rolling it out now. What is correct? -- any way you llook at it it is a big loss, but not racing until 2013 might be the biggest loss.
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:21   #36
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Re: Oracle accident

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
Why is anyone surprised when racing on the edge results in accidents.. The edge is a real tiny slippery slope..

Good news, like any cat worth it's salt, it didn't sink..
It didnt sink because it was allready on the bottom with the top of the mast-then when they attempted to right it they drug it along the bottom till it broke up.....
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:26   #37
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Re: Oracle AC72 Capsize America's Cup

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Originally Posted by David M View Post
Pitchpoling on high performance racing cats is pretty common. The difference is that the other race cats do not self-destruct.

The organizers will have to do some re-engineering in order to beef up these boats so they are more resistant to damage when capsizing or pitchpoling. Otherwise there will not be any boats to race. It is a good thing they are testing these boats well ahead of time.

I like that the racing is on the edge. It will more fun to watch....beats watching big heavy monohulls slog around the course.
These are very seaworthy boats! They pitchpole in 3ft waves and 16mph winds! LOL --kind of reminds me of last Americas Cup when they called off 2 races because of "high winds that were 13mph and 16mph--of course this was after they altered the rulse to install electric generators to operate the winches -gas powered generators--some sailing raceboatsLOL
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:10   #38
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Re: Oracle Accident

I never said they were seaworthy. Pushing the envelope and seaworthy are pretty much polar opposite goals with regards to the engineering design.

How interesting would it be to watch extremely seaworthy boats race around a course? Probably more boring than watching 12 meters.

I already said these boats need to be made more resistant to damage from capsizes....otherwise there won't be any boats available to race.

It's interesting in this thread to see cruisers instinct to be conservative and safe clashing with racers inclinations to want to go fast at the expense of reliability. Two completely different philosophies going head to head here.
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Old 28-10-2012, 10:21   #39
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Re: Oracle Accident

Anyone remember the OLD rules? back when the races first started... Part of the reason that America kept the cup so long in the first place was the rule that the challenger had to sail from the homeport of the challenging yacht club to the race site.

Engineering a boat to cross the atlantic by itself is MUCH different to engineering a boat to just sail out to the harbour on a nice day to win a race against a much heavier blue water design boat.





The history of winning the cup via Lawyers has a long and distingushed history.


At least now the boats are pretty much on the same playing field.
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