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Old 07-01-2016, 14:34   #46
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Originally Posted by nortonscove View Post
If you want said stuff it is very obviously better. Just saying that some of the people want this so called stuff.
Fit said "stuff" into a longer boat. Longer is always better. A fat, heavy, short pig of a boat isn't.
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Old 07-01-2016, 15:01   #47
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Originally Posted by Highland Fling View Post
YES what a shame you are not well informed re L380 performance have a look at posts by Cruisers & Sailing Forums - View Profile: django37 and see what a Lagoon 380 owner actulally does to get performance out of his L380 and note his recent outstanding performance in the 2015 ARC. The issues i have is thinking you know better than the guy(s) who designed the boat... always dangerous.
Wow!! Tom spoke about his boat and his sail plan, didn't have anything to say on Lagoon 380 yet this quite rude comment ensues. Wow
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Old 07-01-2016, 17:11   #48
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Wow!! Tom spoke about his boat and his sail plan, didn't have anything to say on Lagoon 380 yet this quite rude comment ensues. Wow
Really,

Tom was commenting on and following up on my suggestions on how to make a Lagoon 380 perform better

ALL I did was point him to someone who agrees with me AND who is a Lagoon 380 owner AND who has made these modifications to his Lagoon 380 AND who posts here as well. If you think that is rude advising someone to read and learn from others experiences, we do live in a quite different world.
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Old 08-01-2016, 16:40   #49
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Originally Posted by hblask View Post

Observation: cats in the last 5 years seem to have a much better design, so that the "feels like" of a 38' or 40' boat is equivalent to a 43-45' boat from 15 years ago, and the new ones have better cockpit layouts. True or false?

Rumor: Lagoon, FP, and Leopard are all fine boats, but Catana is that next step up in quality of build. True or false?

...
Would agree re size feel. The latest crop of 44' cats feel very big but windage is high too and as others have commented can make them a handful at close quarters in bad conditions.

Wouldn't agree re Catana being next step up in build quality and not impressed by their plumbing and wiring standards on factory fitted extras.

If you want a copy of a spreadsheet I developed to help with the objectifying the assessment process PM me.

TwT
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Old 08-01-2016, 17:05   #50
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

There is a lot to be said for experience. The Taiwan monohull builders learned and modified with every hull.
That said, with Catamarans the composite industry allowed them to go wider. Carbon fiber in aircraft will drive further inprovements. Take it from a plastics engineer, there is a huge difference in a two decades of composite technology, as it relates to making a wide structure and the torsion that comes with it. Monohulls don't need state of art FRP technology.
I am surprised how many of these guys are still using balsa cores though. Ever have deck rot?
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Old 08-01-2016, 19:55   #51
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Originally Posted by Highland Fling View Post
YES what a shame you are not well informed re L380 performance have a look at posts by Cruisers & Sailing Forums - View Profile: django37 and see what a Lagoon 380 owner actulally does to get performance out of his L380 and note his recent outstanding performance in the 2015 ARC. The issues i have is thinking you know better than the guy(s) who designed the boat... always dangerous.
Don't really understand your anger at my post. Also wonder why you think I should search through some ones posts in various threads to dig out information.

I can find lots of places on the internet and in CF where the term "square top" is used. I have never seen the term "maxi roach flat top mainsail" till the post I was responding to and I asked for a definition of it was.

No one has even mentioned any ARC till you did in this post and I have to wonder why?

All in all your post seems way OT.

Still can't figure out the point of your post.
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Old 08-01-2016, 20:46   #52
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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I can find lots of places on the internet and in CF where the term "square top" is used. I have never seen the term "maxi roach flat top mainsail" till the post I was responding to and I asked for a definition of it was.
"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

Google says: No results found for "maxi roach flat top mainsail".
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Old 09-01-2016, 08:04   #53
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

maxi roach flat top main:

extreme


more typical


elliptical
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:35   #54
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

When discussing cats, you’ll often hear regarding the slower ones “what’s an extra knot” or “we are cruising, not racing” but these miss the point and sound like justifications for a slow boat. This may not apply to the OP, but for those from a “sailing” background, as opposed to adventure travel or those toting a large family with all the necessary stuff or living on the hook in a stationary place, sailing capability is very high on the list of priorities. And for many decent sailing cats, the tradeoff in comfort is not very big. Maybe the ability (really, the desire) to carry a huge load of stuff has to be limited, but you’re not suffering hardship. At least I know we don’t and other moderate performance-oriented cats, like the Catanas, don’t suffer. Its not just about getting to the next stop quicker or having a greater daylight range or saving fuel, which are certainly part of it. But it’s also about enjoying making the boat go. We were never more frustrated than when chartering cats and unable to make them go in less than 15 knots or get them to tack in less than 120 deg. Trying to eak out that extra knot, catching that guy on the horizon, and tweaking sails and boards is a big part of the fun for us. If you really are mostly concerned about comforts and space, you really should consider a long-range trawler – that’s how a lot of cats are used anyway.
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:40   #55
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
When discussing cats, you’ll often hear regarding the slower ones “what’s an extra knot” or “we are cruising, not racing” but these miss the point and sound like justifications for a slow boat. This may not apply to the OP, but for those from a “sailing” background, as opposed to adventure travel or those toting a large family with all the necessary stuff or living on the hook in a stationary place, sailing capability is very high on the list of priorities. And for many decent sailing cats, the tradeoff in comfort is not very big. Maybe the ability (really, the desire) to carry a huge load of stuff has to be limited, but you’re not suffering hardship. At least I know we don’t and other moderate performance-oriented cats, like the Catanas, don’t suffer. Its not just about getting to the next stop quicker or having a greater daylight range or saving fuel, which are certainly part of it. But it’s also about enjoying making the boat go. We were never more frustrated than when chartering cats and unable to make them go in less than 15 knots or get them to tack in less than 120 deg. Trying to eak out that extra knot, catching that guy on the horizon, and tweaking sails and boards is a big part of the fun for us. If you really are mostly concerned about comforts and space, you really should consider a long-range trawler – that’s how a lot of cats are used anyway.
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:59   #56
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
When discussing cats, you’ll often hear regarding the slower ones “what’s an extra knot” or “we are cruising, not racing” but these miss the point and sound like justifications for a slow boat. This may not apply to the OP, but for those from a “sailing” background, as opposed to adventure travel or those toting a large family with all the necessary stuff or living on the hook in a stationary place, sailing capability is very high on the list of priorities. And for many decent sailing cats, the tradeoff in comfort is not very big. Maybe the ability (really, the desire) to carry a huge load of stuff has to be limited, but you’re not suffering hardship. At least I know we don’t and other moderate performance-oriented cats, like the Catanas, don’t suffer. Its not just about getting to the next stop quicker or having a greater daylight range or saving fuel, which are certainly part of it. But it’s also about enjoying making the boat go. We were never more frustrated than when chartering cats and unable to make them go in less than 15 knots or get them to tack in less than 120 deg. Trying to eak out that extra knot, catching that guy on the horizon, and tweaking sails and boards is a big part of the fun for us. If you really are mostly concerned about comforts and space, you really should consider a long-range trawler – that’s how a lot of cats are used anyway.
It's OK if what you want from a boat and what someone else wants from a boat are different. The world would be awful boring if everybody wanted the same thing.
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Old 09-01-2016, 16:31   #57
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
When discussing cats, you’ll often hear regarding the slower ones “what’s an extra knot” or “we are cruising, not racing” but these miss the point and sound like justifications for a slow boat. This may not apply to the OP, but for those from a “sailing” background, as opposed to adventure travel or those toting a large family with all the necessary stuff or living on the hook in a stationary place, sailing capability is very high on the list of priorities. And for many decent sailing cats, the tradeoff in comfort is not very big. Maybe the ability (really, the desire) to carry a huge load of stuff has to be limited, but you’re not suffering hardship. At least I know we don’t and other moderate performance-oriented cats, like the Catanas, don’t suffer. Its not just about getting to the next stop quicker or having a greater daylight range or saving fuel, which are certainly part of it. But it’s also about enjoying making the boat go. We were never more frustrated than when chartering cats and unable to make them go in less than 15 knots or get them to tack in less than 120 deg. Trying to eak out that extra knot, catching that guy on the horizon, and tweaking sails and boards is a big part of the fun for us. If you really are mostly concerned about comforts and space, you really should consider a long-range trawler – that’s how a lot of cats are used anyway.
You have exactly stated why I chose my particular boat and and how I like to enjoy it.
I go out of my way to keep it simple, try and keep it light (full time cruising makes that challenging...) and focus on sailing whenever we possibly can. We keep our destinations flexible to follow favourable wind angles, when we can... and I am dismayed by the number of sailboats I continually see motoring on great wind days everywhere we go
I understand why many people have different priorities,needs etc. As DotDun has said, we are all looking for something that fits us.

Bob
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Old 13-01-2016, 17:54   #58
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
When discussing cats, you’ll often hear regarding the slower ones “what’s an extra knot” or “we are cruising, not racing” but these miss the point and sound like justifications for a slow boat. This may not apply to the OP, but for those from a “sailing” background, as opposed to adventure travel or those toting a large family with all the necessary stuff or living on the hook in a stationary place, sailing capability is very high on the list of priorities. And for many decent sailing cats, the tradeoff in comfort is not very big. Maybe the ability (really, the desire) to carry a huge load of stuff has to be limited, but you’re not suffering hardship. At least I know we don’t and other moderate performance-oriented cats, like the Catanas, don’t suffer. Its not just about getting to the next stop quicker or having a greater daylight range or saving fuel, which are certainly part of it. But it’s also about enjoying making the boat go. We were never more frustrated than when chartering cats and unable to make them go in less than 15 knots or get them to tack in less than 120 deg. Trying to eak out that extra knot, catching that guy on the horizon, and tweaking sails and boards is a big part of the fun for us. If you really are mostly concerned about comforts and space, you really should consider a long-range trawler – that’s how a lot of cats are used anyway.

I know this is the MULTI part of the forum BUT swap boat for cat and YES tis why I sail what I sail and the way I sail her.

WELL SAID......however there are NON performance sailors who just pull up the white things and that is that...many even don't bother to pull up the white things and you will see them using the iron topsail (FOR A N OTHER- the Engine) when there are almost perfect sailing conditions BUT then what is important to me and you is obviously of litle import to many many other sailboat owners.

Cest la Whatsit
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Old 13-01-2016, 18:06   #59
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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You appear very angry to me
Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
I too am angry. My cat has to run inside to use the litterbox, then dashes back outside again.
Wait. Am I in the right "cat" forum?😝


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Old 13-01-2016, 18:10   #60
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Re: Opinions please on cat purchase

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Originally Posted by Highland Fling View Post
I know this is the MULTI part of the forum BUT swap boat for cat and YES tis why I sail what I sail and the way I sail her.

WELL SAID......however there are NON performance sailors who just pull up the white things and that is that...many even don't bother to pull up the white things and you will see them using the iron topsail (FOR A N OTHER- the Engine) when there are almost perfect sailing conditions BUT then what is important to me and you is obviously of litle import to many many other sailboat owners.

Cest la Whatsit
Seems you are both in violent agreement. Its just that svniko has taken it to the logical conclusion ie if you are going to motor in ideal sailing conditions then why not get a trawler and save all the hassle and expense of having the rig?

With fuel at current levels I would guess its going to make economic sense too. After all Steve Dashew wound up that way in the end albeit a "performance trawler"
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