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Old 21-12-2011, 09:12   #16
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
There is a backhanded way of making a lowball offer that is not insulting.

"I really like your boat. Honestly it is above my price range. I don't want to insult you but if at some point you need to come down in price to move it I can go as high as XYZ minus anything significant found on survey."

Nothing wrong with planting acorns.
This is EXACTLY how we ended up with our boat:

To the broker: "We noticed that 'Merlin' is still for sale. It's WAY above our budget, which is $XXX,XXX. I don't want to waste your time, nor do I want you to waste Our time. If this is something that might work, let us know and we'll stop by.".
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Old 21-12-2011, 13:45   #17
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

Wow so many responses. But still difficult to decide how to act.
I will make it more concrete.

What would you offer for this boat. Initial bid and final bid.

2010 Outremer 49 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Rob
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Old 21-12-2011, 14:46   #18
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

In BC, Canada, many marinas with yearly moorage contracts start March 1st, so in February with a $3000-6000 payment staring them in the face for something they want to sell, the price can drop dramatically.
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Old 21-12-2011, 14:49   #19
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multihull View Post
Wow so many responses. But still difficult to decide how to act.
I will make it more concrete.

What would you offer for this boat. Initial bid and final bid.

2010 Outremer 49 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Rob

Someone with a $1M plus boat may not need to sell, so asking price, on the other hand if a margin call has been made on a trading account he has, $300k may do the deal.
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Old 21-12-2011, 15:04   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multihull
Wow so many responses. But still difficult to decide how to act.
I will make it more concrete.

What would you offer for this boat. Initial bid and final bid.

2010 Outremer 49 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Rob
A 30 second google search turns up at least 3 other 2010 models for sale. Asking prices range from about US730 - US850. One was apparently recently reduced from 750 euros to 580 or something. I didn't spend much time on this but obviously you should.

The color scheme on the one you linked is pretty specific. People are gonna love it or hate it. I personally hate it.

Based on the tiny bit of info I have I would be offering no more than 700k. Depending on the boat I would expect to close at 750 or so. Although if I were actually in the market for a boat this expensive I would be traveling to see every one that is on the market first.

My first question would be why are there 4 of these on the market at once? Are owners not happy with them?
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Old 21-12-2011, 15:34   #21
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multihull View Post
Wow so many responses. But still difficult to decide how to act.
I will make it more concrete.

What would you offer for this boat. Initial bid and final bid.

2010 Outremer 49 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Rob
one thing to note............the pictures are not always correct.........I have seen alot of nice pictures and travelled to see the boat and we were shocked to all the defects that dont show in the photos.........

good luck
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Old 21-12-2011, 16:04   #22
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multihull View Post
Wow so many responses. But still difficult to decide how to act.
I will make it more concrete.

What would you offer for this boat. Initial bid and final bid.

2010 Outremer 49 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Rob
It's a nice boat, although it has a stupid name and ugly color scheme. I really want to like Outremer since they share some design elements with Catana, but there are way too many annoying features for me. But I digress...

I would say this boat is worth around $750k USD, so offer $650k and go from there. There's no way a 49' Outremer is worth USD$1 million unless they can find a buyer with plenty of extra cash that falls in love with this specific boat. Seems like a long shot.

Good luck!

Doug
s/v Zangezi - Catana 471
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Old 21-12-2011, 16:16   #23
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

I have had some success at buying high value items using something to the effect of: "I would like to make you a serious offer, however, at your asking price, I'm afraid you may take it as an insult."

That tells the seller you are serious, it tells him you want to deal, and it certainly tells him that your offer, and perhaps final price, will not be anywhere near their ask. I have offered as little as 40%, and am not afraid to go 55-60% and not move much off that, if that is where I think the value is.

Often a followup call 2 or so weeks past the original offer ends up in a purchase... especially if buddy hasn't had any other interest and was able to stew about your real offer.

Oh, and don't make it subject to finance. That is an impediment he will not want to deal with. Survey is another thing of course.
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Old 21-12-2011, 16:33   #24
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

Just bought a Boat for 20% of original asking price.Boats are like any other commoditiy ,in a buyers market you have to have the best one out there at the best price to attract buyer's
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Old 21-12-2011, 16:52   #25
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

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Originally Posted by Multihull View Post
What would be a good opening offer and where will you end in the current market.
I notice that (some) asking prices are dropping. Making it more difficult to decide on your first bid.

I think 30 percent to start and at least 15 percent for the final offer. ?

Rob
Offer whatever you like. It's a buyer's market right now. You can always increase your offer.
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Old 22-12-2011, 03:39   #26
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poozer View Post
It's a nice boat, although it has a stupid name and ugly color scheme. I really want to like Outremer since they share some design elements with Catana, but there are way too many annoying features for me. But I digress...

I would say this boat is worth around $750k USD, so offer $650k and go from there. There's no way a 49' Outremer is worth USD$1 million unless they can find a buyer with plenty of extra cash that falls in love with this specific boat. Seems like a long shot.

Good luck!

Doug
s/v Zangezi - Catana 471
For that sort of sum (esp. on a discretionary purchase like a boat) I would expect that both parties would be dancing around each other a little bit.......before getting engaged

Obviously can go straight in with a hard "take it or leave it" cash offer, but I would want to sound out the other party first before making any offers..........by being interested but not over keen.

Even after a first look I would not make any offer (neither firm (low!) nor even talk ballparks), just say that interested (albeit boat has plusses and minuses - as expected - that you need to mull over vs other boats / deals) and will be / are already looking at other vessels........should generate some feedback from the Broker to start giving an impression of where the Owner is in his desire to sell.

At the end of the day, if you could get the boat for $300k (distressed seller ) then likely would be the easiest money ever made (or not?!).
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Old 22-12-2011, 04:17   #27
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multihull View Post
What would be a good opening offer and where will you end in the current market.
I notice that (some) asking prices are dropping. Making it more difficult to decide on your first bid.

I think 30 percent to start and at least 15 percent for the final offer. ?

Rob
One more to the "no set rule" vote pile.

Sure, you lowball, AFTER you've examined the boat. Some people don't shine their price up at all; they have a realistic idea what the market is doing and where their boat is within in.

But such people are rare in my (two 30 foot-plus boats purchased in the last 12 years) limited experience.

I wouldn't make an offer until a) the boat was surveyed, and b) I'd had a sea trial.

I would, if I liked it well enough to pursue it, offer a deposit of 10% of fhe asking price to indicate I wasn't dicking around, and I would of course pay for the survey.

I would also not feel out of line asking to see previous surveys, maintenance logs (if any), and even receipts for major equipment to prove the work had been done when it was alleged to have been done. Sometimes it's not possible (I rebuilt my own Atomic 4; there's no receipt, just a "reset" of the hour meter and an old block in the gararge). Sometimes it's not necessary: I have an original storm jib that looks about new because it's been put out four times in 25 years.

And so on.

Having a "pre-set discounted offer" is unnecessarily rigid in my view. You can find a beautiful boat with hand-stitched throw pillows, lousy wiring and pinkish gate valves.
Yikes. Soon to be a stylish reef habitat! You can also find a very well-maintained boat by a single owner who have aged and died, and did very little sailing and maybe no cleaning in the last five years of life. That boat will look like crap, but will clean up nicely in a couple of days, and you can reap the discount if the descendents aren't sailors.

This is quite common. A lot of the generation born just a shave too young for WWII bought boats in their 40s in the 1970s, and are now too old to sail or passed on. There's a glut of solid, now ungroovy cruiser too skinny and amenities-free to appeal. I have seen prices for freshwater Irwins and Ericsons and Morgans and so on that have shocked me. Only C&Cs and a few other selected marques have retained value on Lake Ontario.

So play it as it's dealt. That's my advice. I got my first boat for a greater than 30% discount, because the seller was a little delusional about the market. The second boat, I got a 5% discount, because it was sensibly priced...and I wanted it, and it was a custom-built that would've taken three times that price to build anew. Being custom, of course, I paid for a commercial survey, and I'm glad I did.

Different situation, different headspace, different emphasis on haggling.
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Old 22-12-2011, 05:17   #28
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

Just to add - most Sellers seem to have as much (real) idea of what a boat is actually worth as Buyers........whether or not guided by a Broker ("start at XX and see what happens", plusses and minuses to that strategy, main minus is unlikely to be a quick sale - main plus is for the Broker / Owner not having to think too much ).

For substantive purchases the main question is the one I ask myself: "At what price would I feel comfortable in acheiving a sale, next week"........doesn't mean that I don't pay more than that price (I too have my "want it now!" moments ), but doesn't mean I have to pay that much either .......but nonetheless does give me a point - somewhere between USD1 and USD1 Million ........and if the answer is NFI then time to educate myself a bit more.

FWIW you can have my boat for USD500k (if you haggle hard, may even get 30% off ).
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Old 22-12-2011, 09:19   #29
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

The Outremer 49 was boat of the year when it came out and received so many other accolades that I would think you would be hard pressed to get much of a discount on a used one and there hasn't been many made so the selection is small. Many of us, myself included, consider this the perfect cat and it is the boat of the moment. The one in question is really loaded as most are so that's why the price is high. No one is going to buy one for $300K. I'd offer maybe $150K less than asking otherwise you do run the risk of offending someone or not being taken seriously. If I had one for sale and you tried to lowball it I would tell you to f**k off. But, I would definately offer a lower offer on older boats. FWIW these asking prices are not that far off for a newr 50' cat. Any of the recent vintage 50 footers will cost about the same: Catana 50, Lagoon 500 etc. BOB
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Old 22-12-2011, 21:12   #30
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Re: Opening cash offer. Minus 30 percent of asking price ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multihull View Post
Wow so many responses. But still difficult to decide how to act.
I will make it more concrete.

What would you offer for this boat. Initial bid and final bid.

2010 Outremer 49 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Rob
If I were you, Rob, I'd make an offer on this boat, an Outlandish 63, which will outrun your Outremer on the long haul out there on the blue water, and without offending in the meantime with a Godawful color scheme and a very unoriginal, not to say corny name, LOL. But seriously, you'll never find a production boat as well built as my Catbird Suite, see

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ran-70486.html

The way you do it is as follows: You make me an offer, and don't worry about offending me; I'm a big boy and can take it or leave it. If I'm not offended, then you come to New Zealand, well worth the trip anyhow (considering where you apparently are), and deposit 10% of the agreed upon price and pay for haul out so that you can survey (and you're a fool if you don't survey). Never mind the distance. You would be buying a custom boat, custom designed, construction personally supervised by world-renowned multihull designer as well as owners with boatbuilding and blue-water experience. If you buy a production boat, you'd better live next door to their factory if you want to get anything corrected, ever, never mind warranties. Don't get me wrong. I'm very happy to see more and more production catamarans. It's good for all of us multihullers, as well as for conversion of the half-boat crowd. But don't forget that there are many one-off cats out there that will stand the test of time.

Cheers, High Tacker
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