One off vs production (used)

[riki]

It might be some other thread covering this subject but why not refresh the discussion....
Just today i was talking with a friend of mine about one offs and he said that its like a tailored suit, if you find the one you like and fits you you'll get normally something with far superior quality than most "pret-a-porter" and for a cheaper price. Found the comparaison interesting and indeed makes sense IF the boat has been built by professionals. I never took into consideration one offs mostly because i simply didn't think enough about the opportunity......but i might start considering the option also because where i live they come up each now and then.
Opinions?

[Thumbs Up]

I don't think that there is much love for custom catamarans on this forum. Even if it was built by so-called professionals it is not going to have that plastic interior boat show look. It will not come with an instruction manual, and you will not be able to join the owners group. It might be built so lightly that you will be forced to actually sail to your destination. Also beware because if you decide to scuttle one you won't be able to sink it and it could become a hazard to navigation. You should probably narrow your search only to include well known brands, solid glass below the waterline, and preferably flybridge models (you want that pesky boom at least 20' above the waterline).

[riki]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I don't think that there is much love for custom catamarans on this forum. Even if it was built by so-called professionals it is not going to have that plastic interior boat show look. It will not come with an instruction manual, and you will not be able to join the owners group. It might be built so lightly that you will be forced to actually sail to your destination. Also beware because if you decide to scuttle one you won't be able to sink it and it could become a hazard to navigation. You should probably narrow your search only to include well known brands, solid glass below the waterline, and preferably flybridge models (you want that pesky boom at least 20' above the waterline).

......

[Singularity]

I think after 15-20 years of use any mechanical thing will have shown you what it is capable of and what it's needs are. Furthermore, most "factory built" complicated contraptions start looking more and more "one off" as the years go by.

[hellosailor]

A one-off anything is only worth what someone will pay for it, and being there's just one of it? There's no real "market" value. I know a man who ordered a brand new Buick some years ago. Light bright metallic green with burgundy red interior. When the sales manager saw it rolling off the delivery truck, he was apoplectic. He was sure it was a mistake, and when he found out it wasn't, he was only in horror that he might get stuck with the car.
Customer shows up, nice Chinese man, has big smile when he sees his car, in Chinese festival colors. Very happy all around.
Well, yeah, for *one* man that car was perfect. But on the general market? No, you couldn't give it away. If you get that custom one-off at a price that makes you happy, and realize a quick or reasonable resale may not be possible in the future...Great if it makes you happy.

[Dave_S]

Think of yourself in two different rolls as the original boat builder.

One where you are choosing the equipment and specifications for your dream boat and in the other roll where you are choosing to ensure volume of sales and the profitability of your company.

There are pro's and con's for each, I can see why you would want to buy a production boat and I can see why you would buy a custom boat but I can't see why you would rule one out.

[riki]

Thanx for all replies.
I think that the car example is a bit extreme, but I get the point.
But i think that if a boat is found that meets the taste, probably we ca talk about a better overall quality for less price considering the above.
I was talking with a broker some time ago and he was telling me about how the average quality in last years production is getting lower and lower due to factories seeking for price reductions. I can't tell because i don't have experience, but i guess that a broker can talk with knowledge (isn't the same happening with almost everything around us?); and here is where i think that maybe a custom can offer more for less.
Maybe, just reflecting if it worth or not considering a custom boat IF i like it.....

[Jim Cate]

A professionally built one-off can be a fantastic boat if it fits your needs and usage.

I own one. It was not inexpensive. There is no owners group to fall back upon, but I've not needed such support as of yet (15 years). There is no owners manual, and one that answered every one of my questions would be useful. None of the production boats that I have owned came with one either, though... I guess that some do these days, but reading between the lines here on CF I'd guess that they don't really answer ALL the questions! On the other hand, I know the builder's phone number, and he answers the phone himself. Beats a generic owners manual all hollow!

What do you get that's special? Well, a hull designed by a leading designer with a design brief that pays no attention to marketing, trends, racing rules or bling. In our case, you get a master shipwright who was building for his own usage, and he knew that he would have to live with the end product. You get joinery of a quality that is not available in a production boat. You get solid hardwoods everywhere... NO veneer in the boat. You get an interior layout designed to be used at sea, safely. You get scantlings that satisfy engineering requirements with no input from desk bound accountants. You get winches that are sized for hard sailing, not minimum requirements. You get an engine installation where servicing was considered important, since he knew that he would be doing the servicing.

And so on...

IF these things are important to you and your usage, it is great. Obviously, the fit between design and your desires/needs is idiosyncratic and must be analyzed for each vessel. It will not often match, but when it does, well, it's kinda magic.

The essential drawback is fiscal. There is no established market value, and this could be a problem. It is hard to determine what you should pay for it when you buy, and where you should price it when it is time to sell. The number of potential buyers who are sophisticated enough to appreciate the vessel's superiority is small and that means she could be hard to sell. On the other hand, we've had three people say that when the day comes that we sell, they would like first refusal. Were they serious? Who knows... I guess that someday I'll be faced with finding out the answer to such monetary problems, but in the meantime, I'm enjoying my one-off!

Jim

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I don't think that there is much love for custom catamarans on this forum. Even if it was built by so-called professionals it is not going to have that plastic interior boat show look. It will not come with an instruction manual, and you will not be able to join the owners group. It might be built so lightly that you will be forced to actually sail to your destination. Also beware because if you decide to scuttle one you won't be able to sink it and it could become a hazard to navigation. You should probably narrow your search only to include well known brands, solid glass below the waterline, and preferably flybridge models (you want that pesky boom at least 20' above the waterline).

This is really a useless post. It's not even coherent.

To the OP
Most custom boats that I've seen demand quite a premium price compared to production boats. And when I look at them the finish level isn't as high.
Like this one.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...g#.W5WLHehKjic

[smj]

We bought a custom 2010 Searunner 38 Catamaran 3 years ago. She is basically cold molded and weighs one half to one third of the weight of a similar sized production cat. She is much better built and far stronger in my opinion and cost WAY less than a used production model. She also performs much better. We have been very happy with our decision.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Palarran

This is really a useless post. It's not even coherent.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...g#.W5WLHehKjic

That was sarcasm from a custom boat owner. I think it was funny as it was intended to be.

[riki]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

A professionally built one-off can be a fantastic boat if it fits your needs and usage.

I own one. It was not inexpensive. There is no owners group to fall back upon, but I've not needed such support as of yet (15 years). There is no owners manual, and one that answered every one of my questions would be useful. None of the production boats that I have owned came with one either, though... I guess that some do these days, but reading between the lines here on CF I'd guess that they don't really answer ALL the questions! On the other hand, I know the builder's phone number, and he answers the phone himself. Beats a generic owners manual all hollow!

What do you get that's special? Well, a hull designed by a leading designer with a design brief that pays no attention to marketing, trends, racing rules or bling. In our case, you get a master shipwright who was building for his own usage, and he knew that he would have to live with the end product. You get joinery of a quality that is not available in a production boat. You get solid hardwoods everywhere... NO veneer in the boat. You get an interior layout designed to be used at sea, safely. You get scantlings that satisfy engineering requirements with no input from desk bound accountants. You get winches that are sized for hard sailing, not minimum requirements. You get an engine installation where servicing was considered important, since he knew that he would be doing the servicing.

And so on...

IF these things are important to you and your usage, it is great. Obviously, the fit between design and your desires/needs is idiosyncratic and must be analyzed for each vessel. It will not often match, but when it does, well, it's kinda magic.

The essential drawback is fiscal. There is no established market value, and this could be a problem. It is hard to determine what you should pay for it when you buy, and where you should price it when it is time to sell. The number of potential buyers who are sophisticated enough to appreciate the vessel's superiority is small and that means she could be hard to sell. On the other hand, we've had three people say that when the day comes that we sell, they would like first refusal. Were they serious? Who knows... I guess that someday I'll be faced with finding out the answer to such monetary problems, but in the meantime, I'm enjoying my one-off!

Jim

I like what you say and indeed very valid points. And i can't imagine somebody building it's own boat, spending more to get less.
The biggest issue really i think that it's all about value and resale, more resale than value because if fairly priced everything finds a new owner.....but resale.... i think it's much more difficult to get someone to travel just to discover something he never saw.

[riki]

Originally Posted by Palarran

This is really a useless post. It's not even coherent.

To the OP
Most custom boats that I've seen demand quite a premium price compared to production boats. And when I look at them the finish level isn't as high.
Like this one.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...g#.W5WLHehKjic

I think, might be wrong on this one, that custom builts have a special price when put on sale because it includes a "sentimental" plus that owners add that soon or later they discover that no one is going to pay. At that point or the price lowers or the boat keep on sale for very long before the price drops.
That said i also guess that being a one off not necessarly mean top quality.....

[boatpoker]

I did my 4,614th survey yesterday so I have a bit of market knowledge. I have only ever surveyed three boats I have found nothing wrong with and all three were home built. I have owned three boats and all three were one-offs that I got at ultra low prices.

Most of this type of boat in the business are known as "orphans" and are often very difficult to sell and therefore usually are significantly discounted. If you know your stuff and really know what you want, this end of the market is where you find your steal of a lifetime ........ or get burnt big time

[smj]

Originally Posted by riki

I think, might be wrong on this one, that custom builts have a special price when put on sale because it includes a "sentimental" plus that owners add that soon or later they discover that no one is going to pay. At that point or the price lowers or the boat keep on sale for very long before the price drops.

That said i also guess that being a one off not necessarly mean top quality.....

Yes, just because your buying a one off or custom doesn’t mean your buying top quality, but the same goes for production. I think buying a production boat may make the buyer feel more warm and fuzzy as there are others in the same boat as he, where if your buying a one off you are one of the only ones. If you have a lowish budget you may get a far superior boat for a lower price if you’re willing to take the chances of buying a custom.