OH Poop!!!! American Cup Cat Flips (video)

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by sneuman

I think the pitch poles complete with mass crew dumps would be the best thing for the next AC. At least that would be exciting. If the last AC is any example, the actual sailing and tactics aboard multis will be a complete bore to watch on TV.

I was in NZ for the '03 AC fiasco and judging by that the AC in monos is all about watching boats breaking and nearly sinking in 15 knots of wind... Breaking in 25 knots will an improvement

Seriously, the AC is and has always been mostly a design competition. More often than not it has been won before the starting gun and the racing has been pretty one sided. That was more evident with the huge courses and high speeds in the last cup but even in monos on short(er) courses blow outs are more common than close races.

"Actual sailing and tactics?" Really?

Tom.

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by Factor

...And the reason that the NYYC held the trophy for so many years was that they simply changed the rules from minute to minute to defeat challengers. There were some extraordinary behaviours like requiring the challenger to nominate sail and rig patterns days out from a race where the NYYC boat would be able to change sail wardrobes up until the start time, outrageous abuse of power. Its why Aus II win was so wonderful, not because it was Australia but because someone finally stood up to the bullies.

The winners get to write the history...

Still AII was far and away the fastest 12 of her era and most of the NYYC's bad behavior predates the war. IMO, the 12 meter rule and the addition of a challenger selection series (LV cup) made it almost inevitable that eventually the NYYC would lose the cup. AII was a great (revolutionary) design, was well sailed in the LV and the Cup and the win was very much deserved but I think the NYYC bullies of the time were playing a pretty fair game.

Tom.

[markpierce]

No wonder I've no desire for a catamaran.

Yes, bring back the J-class!



They were beautiful, spectacular, and look like a racing sailboat should.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by markpierce

No wonder I've no desire for a catamaran.

or a sailing Mono, judging by your current purchase of a powered trawler

[sabray]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

A bit far to sail one from Australia. Especially when they forgot to put a galley in them.

Aussies had been taking the Americans to task from the 1950's with the Packer family... sort of always been a media thing, passed to Bond who owned a large TV channel at the time that he had bought from the Packers for $1 Billion. A few years later Packer bought the TV station back for $200 million, saying: "You only get one Alan Bond in your life".

And no matter how many hulls in the challange these days, there ain't nothing like 1983, not just because of the winged keel (that may have just been psycological) but the one yacht club the New York Yacht Club had defended it for 132 years against the best the world had to offer.

The Aussies glorified that keel. Chris craft was getting damn near to it in 1966 when they built a s and s designed 37 footer. I think a 3000 dollar prindle may have been able to scoop the socks off the fleet until very recently. Absolutely no point to this post. except hey I'm watching this cup thing again. Kinda looks like good sport.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by cat man do

or a sailing Mono, judging by your current purchase of a powered trawler

But I've got a jib and main! I'm sail assisted!

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by markpierce

But I've got a jib and main! I'm sail assisted!

I would suggest for balance and stability, not actual drive.
To prove my point how do you think she will go with engines off dragging the big 3 or 4 blader?

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by cat man do

I would suggest for balance and stability, not actual drive.
To prove my point how do you think she will go with engines off dragging the big 3 or 4 blader?

OK, then tell me why the majority of auxiliary sailboats use their engines to get anywhere? And where the heck are your sails? Besides, the Coot's sails do provide drive, something on the order of 5 to 10% depending upon conditions.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by markpierce

OK, then tell me why the majority of auxiliary sailboats use their engines to get anywhere?

Probably because many of them dont sail as well or as fast as they would like, especially in light air or strong currents

And where the heck are your sails?

Its a powercat
I do not need sails for stability, it has 2 hulls and beam

Besides, the Coot's sails do provide drive, something on the order of 5 to 10% depending upon conditions.

so 5 to 10% drive and the rest is stability
So the rig and sails provide about 1 knot of boatspeed but at what expense?

Mark, I am not having a go at your boat.
But I did find your derision of sailing multihulls in favour of sailing monohulls strange, especially as you chose not to have one yourself.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Mark, I am not having a go at your boat.
But I did find your derision of sailing multihulls in favour of sailing monohulls strange, especially as you chose not to have one yourself.

I'm unaware of monohauls that size flipping in such conditions. Is that derision or fact?

In previous lives, I sailed monohaul sloops/cutters, but have gotten too old to rely on sails. Even Jim DeWitt, former extraordinary sailboat racer, has told me, face-to-face, he'd prefer a sail-assisted motorboat such as the Coot.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by markpierce

I'm unaware of monohauls that size flipping in such conditions. Is that derision or fact?

It happens quite regularly on perfomance monohulls that are pressed hard
A video was linked showing this as fact
Perhaps you chose to ignore it?

YouTube - ‪Compilation sailing crashes fail capsizes‬‏

here is a video of a plane crash
I bet you never fly anymore and only catch trains

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWopD...eature=related

Oh wait

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/717099/train_crash/

[markpierce]

No wonder I don't/won't travel faster than hull speed on water.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by markpierce

I'm unaware of monohauls that size flipping in such conditions. Is that derision or fact?

And I am unaware of any multi sinking with the speed of Australia 2. And both your comment and my comment are fairly irrelevant to cruising boats?

BTW I do like your motor boat I would think it looks like a great option when I decided to stop sailing.

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by markpierce

No wonder I don't/won't travel faster than hull speed on water.

That's fun too. This is a cruising forum after all. And, that's a good looking boat you have there. I imagine it is a very civilized way to travel. But, maybe a bit out of place in the "multihull sailboats" section?

Tom.

[hummingway]

The little smiley things do help when people use them and others take them to heart. This has been a very interesting thread so far of which the expected humour has been a part however an analogy does come to mind; your child has a windup toy and while he's having fun the noise is ruining a conversation and you either hope that the spring will break or he'll forget to wind it.