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Old 18-09-2016, 00:18   #46
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Have you thought about how big the props must be to generate that sort of power? And, if attempting to get to windward, how much drag they would generate? And how much shade such beasts would cast upon the panels?

Numbers sure get in the way of dreams...

Jim
Yeah, the obvious solution is to use water generators. Use enough and you can generate more power than the motors consume, and thus can recharge the batteries while motoring, all for free...
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Old 18-09-2016, 00:24   #47
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Are you on a field trip?
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Old 18-09-2016, 00:27   #48
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Have you thought about how big the props must be to generate that sort of power? And, if attempting to get to windward, how much drag they would generate? And how much shade such beasts would cast upon the panels?

Numbers sure get in the way of dreams...

Jim
There are generators with variable pitch or removable blades, so they will not create unnecessary drag while sailing windward.
They're not creating a lot of shade when mounted up in the air (comparing to shade from sails - almost zero). (pictured - 2kW generator)

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Old 18-09-2016, 00:30   #49
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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There are generators with variable pitch or removable blades, so they will not create unnecessary drag while sailing windward.
They're not creating a lot of shade when mounted up in the air (comparing to shade from sails - almost zero).

Too funny.

Come back when you've built this boat. If it's half as good as you claim, you will be rich selling the plan to a manufacturer.
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Old 18-09-2016, 00:31   #50
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Are you on a field trip?
??? Sorry, my English is less than perfect
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Old 18-09-2016, 00:40   #51
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Too funny.

Come back when you've built this boat. If it's half as good as you claim, you will be rich selling the plan to a manufacturer.
Actually this wouldn't interest manufacturers. They mostly building bigger boats for charters or for rich people, neither of them would be interested in saving couple bucks while anchored . But it'll be fun project if ever will happen. Closest thing to my ideas - Solarwave 62. It's already on water, and proofs few of my points (most important one - "yes, it's possible!), but THAT boat has limitations and weak points. At current level of technology it's tough to get rid of sails, for example. And after all, it costs $2M, which is "a little" out of my reach BTW, Solarwave 62 has 15kW of solar, if I remember , and they taking all roof plus bimini, with no sails on boat. No outside the box thinking was used
One thing I probably should do - try to get patent for solar mount, that might interest manufacturers in the future
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Old 18-09-2016, 00:57   #52
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by ranchero76 View Post
There are generators with variable pitch or removable blades, so they will not create unnecessary drag while sailing windward.
They're not creating a lot of shade when mounted up in the air (comparing to shade from sails - almost zero). (pictured - 2kW generator)


Rotor diameter 11 feet. Weighs over 300 lbs. Not even on the manufactures website, but they have lots of magnet toys, magnet jewelry, therapy magnets, pick up magnets, etc.

Take the blades off and on as needed?

Maybe if you post a pic of your concept drawing I'll believe you're not field tripping.

Googling 2kw wind gen and posting the first pic that pops up is a bit suspicious.
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Old 18-09-2016, 01:29   #53
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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I don't think extra couple tons will make difference on FP Sanya 57. It's extremely heavy already, and yet it sails good!
OMG Please. Turn this thing into a powerboat. Then you wouldn't have to worry about shading from the sails.
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Old 18-09-2016, 01:30   #54
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

Here's sold listing on eBay, 3kw wind generator. Yes, it has 3.2m diameter (~1.5m each blade), weight it 90kg (and it looks like that's weight of whole package, including batteries!). Looks manageable.
Suspicious what? I'm not building boat yet, it's all at research stage right now. Does it upset you?

Aleko 3KW Wind Turbine Wind Generator Wind Energy System Wind Power Green Energy | eBay
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Old 18-09-2016, 01:33   #55
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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OMG Please. Turn this thing into a powerboat. Then you wouldn't have to worry about shading from the sails.
Actually, I'd love to! Too bad that solar power will not be enough.
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Old 18-09-2016, 01:55   #56
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

No, no, ... not upset at all.

Research phase is very much a time for outside the box thinking.

But if it ever has a chance to progress to a concept that can be successfully built, there are some practical concerns that must be dealt with.

Seems you lack some of the knowledge and experience needed to address many issues.

Folks are trying to help, but you aren't very receptive to the discussion. Based on the dismissal of the issues mentioned.

Best of luck, carry on.
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Old 18-09-2016, 03:35   #57
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by John Holbrook View Post
How about a hybrid? A yamaha 4JH45 with Sail drive on one side and the Ocean Volt 15kw Sail Drive on the other side.

At 2300rpm the prop on the 4JH45 absorbs 20hp / 15kw. The ocean volt 15kw prop absorbs 15kw at 2200 rpm so pretty evenly matched at that rpm level. Depending on the size of your cat one engine / motor should be able to push it along at say 6kn. You could choose depending on the level of your batteries.

At 2300rpm the Yanmar is capable of 40hp / 30kw at the crank but the prop is absorbing half of that so fitting a 100amp 48v alternator to recharge your batteries would be no issue for the Yanmar. Of course you couldn't run the Yanmar at high rpm with this alternator working or you would overload the engine.

http://www.yanmarmarine.com/theme/ya...monRail-HR.pdf


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Great idea!
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Old 18-09-2016, 03:39   #58
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Point is, a hybrid will likely be so heavy it will use more fuel to motor more slowly, and won't sail at all, thus using even more fuel...
How much heavier, do you think it is than a standard motor?
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Old 18-09-2016, 06:24   #59
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

[QUOTE=ranchero76;2215530] I'm not building boat yet, it's all at research stage right now. [QUOTE]

I think what you need to do is step back and define what you are trying to accomplish first.

As I see it, if your goal is maximizing efficient propulsion and are willing to sacrifice performance. More importantly, you are trying to minimize generator fuel consumption at anchor, there are options. It still won't make financial sense but at least it will make functional sense. (assuming your 50-55' cat)
- If you accept 6kts cruise and flat out 7kts, you could drop the typical 75hp conventional diesels back to 30-40hp each. This reduces up front costs a bit and maximizes efficiency (though not by much). Downside, you give up capability to fight your way into harsh conditions and it will hurt the resale value but if you don't care about resale...
- 10-15kw of solar is just silly. Even if you cram the panels on, you will be lucky to get more than 60% of the rated output due to shading much of the day. Drop back to 3kw and you can actually fit it on the boat reasonably.
- Manage your power consumption. 3kw of solar with a proper inverter covering startup loads should be able to run a couple of 16k btu air/con units routed to the main salon.
- Spend some money insulating the main salon to keep the air/con cycling down.
- At night have a vent system to route those air/con units to the staterooms.
- You still need probably 5-10kwh of battery bank.
- Assuming you leave the boat for 3-4hrs per day, that solar production can be used to top of the battery banks and provide for overnight air/con
- Add a 200amp alternator to each motor with a clutch as a backup if you run into a situation where the solar can't keep up. Negligible power loss when not engaged but together should be able to keep up with the house loads.

It's still going to be much more expensive than just running a moderate size generator with the standard propulsion engines but at least it will have some value.

PS: I didn't run detailed calculations so some of the numbers may need some tweaks but they should be correct at least in order of magnitude and you should be able to make them work.
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Old 18-09-2016, 06:33   #60
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Re: Oceanvolt Hybrid Motor

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Originally Posted by John Holbrook View Post
How about a hybrid? A yamaha 4JH45 with Sail drive on one side and the Ocean Volt 15kw Sail Drive on the other side.

At 2300rpm the prop on the 4JH45 absorbs 20hp / 15kw. The ocean volt 15kw prop absorbs 15kw at 2200 rpm so pretty evenly matched at that rpm level. Depending on the size of your cat one engine / motor should be able to push it along at say 6kn. You could choose depending on the level of your batteries.

At 2300rpm the Yanmar is capable of 40hp / 30kw at the crank but the prop is absorbing half of that so fitting a 100amp 48v alternator to recharge your batteries would be no issue for the Yanmar. Of course you couldn't run the Yanmar at high rpm with this alternator working or you would overload the engine.

http://www.yanmarmarine.com/theme/ya...monRail-HR.pdf


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First question, tell us what size boat you are trying to push? 35-38', no problem. 50-55' and you will be way underpowered. In between, it depends.

Second question: Why spec an engine that can't run both direct propulsion and the alternator at the same time? What are you gaining?
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