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Old 23-02-2016, 01:35   #1
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Nylone,or laminate for screecher?

I've got 2 offers in nylone:
-Contender Superkote 250;
-Ripstop 2,2 oz;
And in CodeZero laminate ZL06 Contender.
I'am really confused:
- nylone i strechable,but elastic;
- laminate is strong , but fregile,if flagging...
What to chose ?
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Old 25-02-2016, 02:27   #2
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Re: Nylone,or laminate for screecher?

Firstly, ask the sailmakers regarding your concerns. As they do make sense.
Also, ask if the Code 0 is a true Code 0. Meaning having a built in, low stretch, luff rope/line. AKA anti-torsion cable. And also what kinds of vertical loads said line/the sail can handle on it's luff.
Which leads to the next question. Is it designed to be used with a 2:1 halyard? And also, what do you need for it in terms of; furling gear, a 2:1 halyard block, & any other hardware (or running rigging) in order to optimally rig & fly it.

The same questions should be asked about the Nylon one. Plus, you want to know as much about both of the fabrics in question, as possible. Also, ask as to how one repairs each fabric; both from tears, & just simple punctures. That, & how said damage affects the sail's integrity, & life span, once it's repaired.

Also, inquire as to what wind ranges you can safely fly the sail in. What's the biggest boat (highest righting moment) that the sail can safely handle, etc.
Tips, & or problems from flying it from a prod, or long sprit. That, or via connecting it's tack to twin tackles; one from each bow. So that you can improve on how much clear air it gets (which can also be done with an articulating sprit/prod).

Also, do some reading & research on Code 0's & Screechers. On here, various multihull forums (from beach cats, to big cruisers) - like Multihulls4us (dot) com. And over on Sailing Anarchy Forums (SA Forums). www.forums.sailinganarchy.com
Do a search first (on SA Forums), but if you post this question over there, you'll likely get a bit more in depth feedback. But a search should yield a lot too, & do it first, with several variations in your search wording.


Also, try some of the multihull & sport boat/sprit boat classes. As such sails are pretty much part of their standard inventory.
You can find some of them on SA Forums, & others by simply digging for the class organizations. And they do a LOT of R&D on these things, in quests for better performance. So they'll have loads of info of what's been tried over the years, & what works now; including pros & cons of various designs, lofts, fabrics, & hardware configurations/sail handling setups.

Likely there's a lot more to look into/ask about, but it's about "lights out" time for me.
That said though, you might post what you learn, in order to help others, when it comes time for them to pick such sails. And if you want it, I've got a LONG questionnaire about Code 0's & their furlers. Although, in order to get the answer to it, you'd need to go over to SA Forums, & dig up my old posting on it/them. Off maybe 1yr - 18mos. ago.
Ah, & my handle's the same on SA Forums as it is on here.

A kind gent. in the Class 40 fleet, took the time (& a lot of it) to answer 90%+ of my uber long, list of questions. And he has a LOT of insight & sailing knowledge. Plus a bitchin cool boat.

One other type of resource, would be to talk to the guys at www.MauriProSailing.com & www.APSLtd.com regarding furlers & gear for those types of sails. And if they have any tips, & or resources on/for them.


PS: On perk which I forgot, which such a search will likely yield, is that in some racing fleets, they go through a lot of sails. So that you can probably pick up some pre-loved ones, dirt cheap.
In order to test out different fabrics & designs, so that you can see what you like. And also, to use as your primary sail(s) for this application. Instead of springing for a new one.

And if you don't see such sails listed in a classified's section. Either; post a wanted ad, & or, query other owners directly, to see if they have any sails or hardware that they want to part with (cheap). As, quite literally, some of them have entire garages full of used sails, hardware & components. Even stuff like trick, articulating prods, or old furlers which they no longer use, etc.
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Old 25-02-2016, 06:22   #3
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Re: Nylone,or laminate for screecher?

I'll be watching the thread as I am on the cusp of a similar decision on our cat. Someone I trust is also recommending nylon for our furling screacher.
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Old 25-02-2016, 07:20   #4
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Re: Nylone,or laminate for screecher?

Thanks, UNCIVILIZED, seems like it's time for a long study.
I shall dig sailing anarchy about it. My previose post:
how correctly feed a furling line for schreecher/code zero , regarding the furler was resulting also to "anarchy" Someone prefer a REEL furler with a short line, feeded via blocks , someone prefer a DRUM furler with a long line, properly feeded. Another vote for a sock. I don't want another sock myself - I have aspinaker+sock & , it works well, but will be not handy to store another sail. Especially in light winds - I may need to set it fly/down change rapidly.
Yes, it will be a true SCREECHER , maybe not true CODE ZERO , but Cruising Code Zero with a low stretch luff=antitorsion cable. And, with a high clew.
Another thread: Do I need bowsprit for a screecher? based me on the firm plan:
- to install an articulating bowsprit about 6-8 feet long and to move the tack of the screecher , depending on the wind. But, the standard products like a Forespare , or Selden offers either a Fixed Bowsprit Set for multyhulls, or a line of Spinaker Poles. I understood, that , in my case, it should be a Spinaker pole ( or, just a cut of aluminum,or stainless Tube) with a proper end fittings. Most likely custom made.
Regarding the best sail material - I shall continue study. The Sail Makers (ALL!!) replys:
- Nylone - Very Good !!! But, it will stretch!
- Aramide laminates - Verryy good!! But, don't like flogging (any sail dosen't like it) it's fregile!
Regarding your advise to look for a second hand sails - I don't think there will be a lot of my size and , investing into bowsprit+furler $$$$ will be not correct to squize the juce of the the sail - it's the main thing, finally
There is a very good offer from chineese manufacturer (through my sailing school professor) in both : Contender heavy nylon and laminate. Almost 1/2 of the price local agent sells chineese sails and about 2,5 times less than Quantum quote. So, I shall land somewhere around
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Old 25-02-2016, 07:39   #5
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Re: Nylone,or laminate for screecher?

I'm not being snide, but just honest:

you need to find a sailmaker you trust and take his advice. Unless a sailmaker -cough- Dave Calvert -cough- decides to reply to this thread.
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Old 25-02-2016, 11:00   #6
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Re: Nylone,or laminate for screecher?

Okay, first I need to fix a goof of mine. I was fairly tired when I wrote my response last night, & thus I goofed, regarding what sized boat you’re outfitting. Specifically, I thought that you were looking for sails for a 28 footer, not a big cruising cat.
So if you’re looking for a Code 0/Screecher for the latter, then that changes things a LOT. And before I put my foot any further into my mouth, I’d need to know which of your boat’s you’re looking for a sail for, & what holes in your sail plan range, that you’re trying to fill.

That said, for the purposes of infotainment, here’s the primary Code 0 posting which I put up over on SA forums. Furler for Code 0? - Gear Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Also, here's one other post, that has a reply with a bit of wisdom Code 0 Furlers, What do you have & do you like it - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

And when you fill us in a bit more on what boat the sail’s for, & what you intend to use it for, then it’ll be easier to pen some answers which are a bit more wizened. That, & like AD28 said, having a few sit downs with a sailmaker would help you out. As, most likely, would talking to your designer... about what makes sense, both sail And hardware wise.

For if you intend to put a sprit onto the boat, especially one which articulates, then you need some hard numbers input from him regarding how much it’s okay to load up your forward crossbeam in compression. As is done by such pieces of gear, & the sails attached to them.
Plus, having him fill you in, on where & how it's okay to mount what. As adding anything of substance to the forward beam may be tricky. But will be 10x more, if the beam's carbon.

Also, realistically, if we’re talking about your big cat. Even with a Code 0, or a Screecher, will she have enough sail area (vs. her wetted surface area, & displacement) in order to pull the apparent wind forward?
This question’s kind of key, as it’s the bottom line design factor, regarding what sail type (name) & shape of said sail, that your boat can effectively use. Ditto on what cloth weight & type it needs to be made out of.

Plus, some other factors which plays into cloth weight & type used are; what type of sailor you are/your sailing style, how experienced you & your crew are. Where you'll be sailing, & what kinds of weather will be common there. And again, what wind angles & speeds are you looking for a sail to fill/operate in.
IE: Do you have something like this? http://bethandevans.com/sail_combinations.htm

Then, of course, there’s that pesky budget thing too. For; the sail, it's furling gear, halyards/mod's to same, & ditto on mast/rigging mods, plus sprits…

And there’s more… in terms of both questions to ask, & info to throw at you, but likely I’ve said more than enough already.

PS: Yes, a DIY sprit/pole needn’t be all that tough to put together, nor expensive. And definitely could be/add a lot of fun to your sailing.
It’d even be fairly “easy” to build one which articulates. But we don’t want to break your crossbeam, so…
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Old 25-02-2016, 14:00   #7
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Re: Nylone,or laminate for screecher?

UNCIVILIZED, great stream! It took time to went through your 51 questions/and RailMeat answeres. I will follow the other links , as well. This is a real Know-How... Yes, I need a schreecher for my cat. Motorsailer - in case of light wind has a 90hp Honda (just need enough gas to run at 15 knts ). Custom boat has pros & contras... My boat Designer - Malcolm Tennant passed over. His bureau - not sure if may help - no answers. Boat builder said - I may go ahead with the sprit & screecher. I will ask a rigger's advise.And, will do the load calculations.
At the moment I come closer to:
- ARAMID LAMINATED SAIL;
- REEL FURLER;
- ARTICULATEED BOWSPRIT
To be continued
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Old 02-03-2016, 13:08   #8
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Re: Nylone,or laminate for screecher?

U/K built mine
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Old 02-03-2016, 13:44   #9
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Re: Nylone,or laminate for screecher?

Scottster:
U/K built mine -
- of what material ?
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