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Old 05-02-2019, 14:21   #121
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Re: No room for negotiation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LF4 View Post
Everything that I am reading, and hearing, goes as follows:

- Find the boat
- Ask an expert for a survey
- After the survey ask what the boat is worth
- Once you know what the boat is worth, ask what they think the seller may take
- Once you have that number, offer 65% of it.

Okay, I'll play.

1- You find a boat you like

2- You have a survey done

3- The surveyor estimates the value of the boat (and perhaps you look around at some other comparables), let's say the resulting number is $185K

4- Now, his broker, or your broker, or your brother-in-law says the seller will take $125K - so you offer $83K? Or your "advisor" says the seller will take no less than $285K - so you offer $190K?


Wouldn't it be a lot more sensible to simply make a fair offer based on the value of the boat? And if the seller turns it down after seeing the results of the survey - walk away.
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Old 05-02-2019, 14:33   #122
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Re: No room for negotiation?

I bought my boat 18 months ago, and here's how the process worked for me.

Looked at boats online for years, so I had a relatively good idea what the going price should be. Happened across a beautiful, virtually unused 9 year old FP Salina 48 (dock queen, only thing that seemed to get used was the air conditioner), but the guy wanted more money than I thought it was worth. Scoured the internet, and found several old ads where the guy had been trying to sell it for a couple years with various different brokers. Always wanting too much money for it, no doubt due to it's near pristine condition, but too much is too much. The price through the years has been slowly coming down. The oldest ad I found was in the upper $500's. When I first saw the boat, he had it listed at $460K. Next time I looked 6 months later, it was with another broker at $419k. Getting close to a price I could live with. I called the broker and talked it over with him. Turns out the owner was lined up to buy a power cat from the now selling broker just as soon as he could move the Salina. I asked what the guys bottom line was. Broker said if I offered $400k he would take it. $400k also happened to be the number I was thinking about offering. So I made my offer contingent upon survey and if I got a good vibe when I looked at the boat. I now own the boat at the final purchase price of $398K.

But... I made my offer and it was accepted 2 weeks before Irma. I can only imagine the market has changed.
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Old 05-02-2019, 14:50   #123
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pirate Re: No room for negotiation?

I remember a boat I was selling a few years ago.. had priced it very reasonably and posted it on the internet.. one guy called and said he would buy it for the asking price..
I said fine and he arranged to come down.. he had a look over her then offered me 60% in cash.. more or less waving it under my nose..
I told him to get stuffed and get off the boat.
Anyway.. a couple of hours later I was heading home and as I passed the bar at the marina he shouted out to me and said he would pay the full price, could we close the deal.
I told him to go swivel and mess with someone else.
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Old 05-02-2019, 14:56   #124
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Re: No room for negotiation?

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I remember a boat I was selling a few years ago.. had priced it very reasonably and posted it on the internet.. one guy called and said he would buy it for the asking price..
I said fine and he arranged to come down.. he had a look over her then offered me 60% in cash.. more or less waving it under my nose..
I told him to get stuffed and get off the boat.
Anyway.. a couple of hours later I was heading home and as I passed the bar at the marina he shouted out to me and said he would pay the full price, could we close the deal.
I told him to go swivel and mess with someone else.
Why would you do that? I thought the goal in advertising the boat for sale was to sell the boat. I might have been insulted at 60% as well, but I would have got over it at full price.
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Old 05-02-2019, 15:49   #125
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Re: No room for negotiation?

Truly unfortunate choice of words. “True rexxxd”
Guess you just woke up from a king, long nap. That word is offensive, pejorative, and totally unnecessary. I
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Old 05-02-2019, 16:36   #126
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pirate Re: No room for negotiation?

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Why would you do that? I thought the goal in advertising the boat for sale was to sell the boat. I might have been insulted at 60% as well, but I would have got over it at full price.
I was not desperate to sell and I don't like folks trying to take the pi$$..
He'd seen a variety of pic's and read the full inventory in my Ad.. as far as I was concerned offering the full price on the phone was a ploy to secure the boat from other potential buyers.. then to add salt he plays for a 40% discount 10 days later.
No boat deserves an A$$hole..

Oh.!!! and I got my price a couple of months later.
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Old 05-02-2019, 16:46   #127
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Re: No room for negotiation?

I truly appreciated the education here (read, comment, learn where I am understanding things correctly/incorrectly). This is very helpful conversation.
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:30   #128
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Re: No room for negotiation?

Agree here.
I wouldn’t argue as a buyer or discount as a seller +/- 5%. If a boat worth the price this wouldn’t make a difference.

When a boat is 30% overpriced or underoffered, then it worth the tough negotiation - in my common tactics - max two offers/counter offers. Offer/accept a realistic price or walk away and don’t waste anyone’s time.

Life is short - don’t waste it on idiots.


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Kenomac, boy that is true--in spades! The idea that the value of a used sailboat can be refined down to +/- 5% is just plain silly. The idea of offering 95% of the purchase price as a "take it or leave it" deal makes no sense at all to me. Heck, you probably spent that much in T&L expenses while shopping for boats over 6 months.

Look for a good boat at a good price, and be flexible. If you feel you NEED to get that last 5% off the asking price you ARE playing games. As a seller I feel that such a buyer is going to jerk me around in other picayune ways as the deal goes forward, and I want no part of that.

Flexibility gets you what you want.

Two boat sale stories:

I was selling my old boat. I had a buyer lined up, and we negotiated a price. Because of complex currency exchange issues, the buyer could not deliver the full amount. I took 16% less from him, and sold the boat--happily--the first day I offered it.

The new boat came on the market at a very good price because the owners wanted to move on. We were on scene the day it was listed, and it passed my inspection with flying colors. We cut a check for 10% of the asking price that night and signed a contract at full asking price the next morning. Two days later someone else, who was familiar with the boat, called the broker with an offer of asking price +10%, as is/where is. Lucky for us--we had a contract, and were dealing with an ethical broker and seller.

If I had insisted on full asking price for my old boat, I would have lost my shirt with storage fees and other costs. If I had insisted on down-bidding a very reasonable asking price on the new boat, I would have lost a great deal. I won both deals as far as I was concerned, and the other party to the deal thought they had won too. And we were both right.

You might think you are the world's best negotiator, and refuse to ever pay asking price. That's a game you are welcome to play. Just don't come to me and expect me to play along.

Don't insist you know a boat is overpriced by 5% and then try telling me that is not a game. I will laugh at you. I might still sell you the boat, but if you insist on 5% off, I might insist that the price is not contingent on survey, or some other concession.
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Old 06-02-2019, 09:29   #129
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Re: No room for negotiation?

There is the item I want to buy and the description of it with an estimation of the current conditions with a price tag. Do your due diligence first. Would it be reasonable for you to pay this amount for this offer?

First things first.

When I see an offer with an asking price I am interested in, I am prepared to pay that price before making an offer, otherwise I would not bid / not show up. If I think, it is not worth it, I would not even place an offer.

Second, I want to see it, and if it is as described, I would pay the deposit and let survey it. If I see some issues, I would negotiate upfront a reasonable deduction with the arguments I found or ask for fixing the issues before purchase. I would also make a disclaimer in the contract to back off, if the survey shows serous hidden issues with an option for the seller to sort them out or reduce the price accordingly / maybe split the difference or whatever.

This is fair for both sides. If you start with an lower offer without even seen the item, I as a seller would plain reject it, without seeing you.

And cats sell fast. I am pretty sure, the next buyer shows up soon.

There is room for negotiation, but you need arguments first, otherwise your offer cannot be considered serious.
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Old 06-02-2019, 21:06   #130
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Re: No room for negotiation?

There’s a second preowned Seawind 1160 for sale in the U.S. for $335k. If you’re going to look at one, I’d look at both. Here’s a link to the listing... https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...nced%20listing
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Old 06-02-2019, 21:58   #131
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Re: No room for negotiation?

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I have gone 'full retard' and started making offers on Catamarans. I have made 3 different offers on Cats each with a broker listing price of above 450k USD. My offers have all been within 92-95% of list price.

So far ever offer has been met with a "they won't take less than the list price". No counter, just a flat 'nope'.
I have purchased a few things before in my life that cost a pretty penny, and without exception, there was always the list price, and then some room for negotiation, offers, counter offers etc.

Is this just a market-driven phenomenon that is unique to Catamarans, or sailboats in general? Perhaps it's the maternal Portuguese blood in me but I just can't seem to pay the asking price for something without a good haggle!

I have decided to lick my wounds, lay low until mid-February and remount an attack.

Any advice? Am I being too stubborn, foolish, naive?

I know I will get the "buy directly from the owner" advice, but that scenario is full of emotional sellers entanglements I don't want to deal with. Been there done that, no thank you.
IDK if its a particular brand or year but I do know that Irma knocked out 75% of the cats and it took a hit on it in general. They only build so many per year, and the charter companies got first take on orders I was told. My boat was luckily a survivor without a claim and I had people contacting me to buy her with no intentions to sell her.. and even my buyers agent/broker calling me to see IF I wanted to sale her.. as Im a newbie and bit off a bit more than I can chew.
I still am sitting way more on her than I like.. Is she for sale..? ehhh. Tonight YES. Tomorrow IDK..lol gotta get me when im weak. like tonight..")
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Old 10-02-2019, 14:43   #132
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Re: No room for negotiation?

You may want to remind the idiot broker that he is REQUIRED to submit your offer to the seller.
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Old 10-02-2019, 17:02   #133
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Re: No room for negotiation?

Cat market is hot. Asking prices have been rising. I'm afraid it might be as simple as that. If a 5% off listing price doesn't get their attention, than it's a pretty good indication that full price will be needed to get the process moving towards a survey. Then you can negotiate down based upon the survey.

BUT, nothing is more important that knowing the value of the item you want to buy. I've missed out on some quality items by sticking with the 'never pay full price' attitude.

Good luck.
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Old 10-02-2019, 23:51   #134
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Re: No room for negotiation?

The "never pay the full price" comes from basar bargaining in developing countries, where you ask the double price upfront to make the buyer feel good when you rip him off, even in regular stores people often negotiate.

In western Europe prices are most of the time not negotiable in regular business, and people are less acustomed to negotiate, it is more a binary decision to buy or to walk away. This may change as the culture changes due to migration.

Also the used car market has some negative impact on the openess to negotiations since eastern european dealer are draining the markets, when you try to sell a car, the first thing you hear on the phone is: "what is best price?" and the usual answer is either the double of the asking price or you simply hang up the phone.
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:14   #135
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Re: No room for negotiation?

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Also the used car market has some negative impact on the openess to negotiations.
Why is it negative to be open for negotiations?
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