New style Harryproa cruiser

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

being made in the place that inhabits the capital of litigation, the US. Possibly true, and perhaps they just expect a few will go over.

...since the original interpretation of seawinds was ultra fast/fun but minimalist coastal cruisers, the bridgedeck is just the most rudimentary of addons to satisfy an amount of coastal cruising.

Personally I think I would find a later Wharram with a cuddy more appealing, but maybe thats just me

You've obviously never seen a current Seawind! I have to wonder why people on this forum continuously comment on subjects about which they clearly have no knowledge?

I'd suggest the 7 knot claim would be maximum speed under motor. I've sailed on an xl2 at more than 7 knots in quite light winds.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You've obviously never seen a current Seawind! I have to wonder why people on this forum continuously comment on subjects about which they clearly have no knowledge?

I'd suggest the 7 knot claim would be maximum speed under motor. I've sailed on an xl2 at more than 7 knots in quite light winds.

I had a look at one....
really, these arent better than minimal coastal cruisers, if thats what you want to do then fine.

The hulls are nicely fitted out, actually better than I expected, and the bridgedeck clearance seemed like it would be ok, but that excuse for a bridgedeck cabin is a open liability. This boat would be better and safer without it

[smj]

[QUOTE=ZULU40;1832457]I had a look at one....
really, these arent better than minimal coastal cruisers, if thats what you want to do then fine.

The hulls are nicely fitted out, actually better than I expected, and the bridgedeck clearance seemed like it would be ok, but that excuse for a bridgedeck cabin is a open liability.[/

I don't understand the open liability statement. The Seawind 1000 was originally designed as a canvas topped open bridgedeck cat. If it takes a wave in the cockpit/salon it would shed the water very quickly. We had ours doing over 14 kts many times and she would do 7 kts in less than 10 kts of wind. Not just a coastal cruiser but a great open water boat as well.


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[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by smj

I don't understand the open liability statement. The Seawind 1000 was originally designed as a canvas topped open bridgedeck cat. If it takes a wave in the cockpit/salon it would shed the water very quickly. We had ours doing over 14 kts many times and she would do 7 kts in less than 10 kts of wind. Not just a coastal cruiser but a great open water boat as well.


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I dont think its possible to adequately scupper the amount of water that bridgedeck could swallow. The only place I can see it going is back over the stern.

You reckon its ok, we are just going to have to disagree.

[smj]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

I dont think its possible to adequately scupper the amount of water that bridgedeck could swallow. The only place I can see it going is back over the stern.

You reckon its ok, we are just going to have to disagree.

Have you ever stepped foot on a Seawind 1000? If not maybe it's better to reserve your judgement until you do. Guaranteed the bridgedeck on the Seawind would hold a lot less water than any of the other top production catamarans that I can think of.


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[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by smj

Have you ever stepped foot on a Seawind 1000? If not maybe it's better to reserve your judgement until you do. Guaranteed the bridgedeck on the Seawind would hold a lot less water than any of the other top production catamarans that I can think of.


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Clearly he hasn't. Ignorance doesn't seem to stop some people from posting on this forum though.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by smj

Have you ever stepped foot on a Seawind 1000? If not maybe it's better to reserve your judgement until you do. Guaranteed the bridgedeck on the Seawind would hold a lot less water than any of the other top production catamarans that I can think of.


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Spent a week on a Seawind 1000 in the Whitsundays during cyclone season.
They are a very very seaworthy and well made with no bugs for a small cat. As seaworthy or better as any small cat made.

With Ballotta's expertiese and knowledge of infusion and 60ft infusion table it will be interesting to see the finished job.

[lucdekeyser]

Originally Posted by downunder

With Ballotta's expertiese and knowledge of infusion and 60ft infusion table it will be interesting to see the finished job.

That would be a 60ft infusion mould. That should not be new to Ballotta. They showed pictures of the full deck roof for the Kelsall proa while infusing it in the mould. I estimate that piece at 25 by 25 ft. Quite a large pancake.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by lucdekeyser

That would be a 60ft infusion mould. That should not be new to Ballotta. They showed pictures of the full deck roof for the Kelsall proa while infusing it in the mould. I estimate that piece at 25 by 25 ft. Quite a large pancake.

No Table. They have a table some 60ft x 20ft from when they produced several KSS 56ft cats. They infuse on a very large flat table using the KSS flat panel method that Rob Denny has designed for. They had a roof mold for the 56ft ers.

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by rob denney

I am not being coy about the weights or the cost of the Cruiser 60. I don't know them. When I do, I will make them public, the same as I do for all aspects of harryproas.

is there any planned timeline on when that might be Rob? Or are you at the behest of a situation somewhat out of your control?

[ZULU40]

What has been going on here is in two parts, the concept of the proa as we find it here, and the actual HP boats we have been discussing.

Personally I find the concepts really alluring for it seems to me to be the prescription for a safer boat, and safer boats to me are able to accomplish 2 things that are of interest to me. They can range further as cruisers, and if developed can do so with somewhat smaller boats.

People might take the position that far off cruising should only be attempted by the larger boats, and I fully expect some will. And I dont deny that there are some solid virtues to that notion. But as someone who always seems to end up struggling to do more with less, I ponder the capabilities of the smaller proas on the same concept. For to me the brilliance of the HP is the concept for which I cant find a solid downside.

Its harder to qualify the actual HPs as they appear, they just dont seem ready for a really deep analysis that allows me to commit to deeply too. It might simply be a matter of adequately digesting the material offered. Or my own inability to be able to cross reference them with hard data, where hard data is particularly lacking.

On the one hand theres the concept, on the other theres the boats. And I think that this is where people are tripping over or developing argument, theyre trying to analyse something almost incapable of analysis even if for the time being.

That said, its hard to disapprove of the utility of these boats if you cant say with certainty thats comparatively too expensive or too slow etc. If you cant place them in the latticework of the strata of available boats you wont ever be able to know if you are getting the values that you desire.

Still its been a very interesting ride and I thank lucdekeyser and Rob Denney for bringing these designs to our attention.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by ZULU40

What has been going on here is in two parts, the concept of the proa as we find it here, and the actual HP boats we have been discussing.

Personally I find the concepts really alluring for it seems to me to be the prescription for a safer boat, and safer boats to me are able to accomplish 2 things that are of interest to me. They can range further as cruisers, and if developed can do so with somewhat smaller boats.

People might take the position that far off cruising should only be attempted by the larger boats, and I fully expect some will. And I dont deny that there are some solid virtues to that notion. But as someone who always seems to end up struggling to do more with less, I ponder the capabilities of the smaller proas on the same concept. For to me the brilliance of the HP is the concept for which I cant find a solid downside.

Its harder to qualify the actual HPs as they appear, they just dont seem ready for a really deep analysis that allows me to commit to deeply too. It might simply be a matter of adequately digesting the material offered. Or my own inability to be able to cross reference them with hard data, where hard data is particularly lacking.

On the one hand theres the concept, on the other theres the boats. And I think that this is where people are tripping over or developing argument, theyre trying to analyse something almost incapable of analysis even if for the time being.

That said, its hard to disapprove of the utility of these boats if you cant say with certainty thats comparatively too expensive or too slow etc. If you cant place them in the latticework of the strata of available boats you wont ever be able to know if you are getting the values that you desire.

Still its been a very interesting ride and I thank lucdekeyser and Rob Denney for bringing these designs to our attention.

Think you are right here particualy for somebody who has not been on and sailed one. Here in Australia they are still conceptual as there is not an example of a completed cruising proa running around. a couple to test beds, yes. Luc has the advantage of sailing on one in Europe.

Think we will have to wait till Ballotta finishes one. Built there they will be cost effective. I at this point can't get myself around to utility of shunting ve normal cat. Price and performance have to be a plus.

[ZULU40]

To those lucky folks who will go on to the 60ft, happy trails. Ive had a look around at Robs designs, discovered boats like Harrigami and am enthused about the possibilities for pocket cruiser boats.

The revelation here is to be everything that this class of cat never really materialised in one package, safety, clearance, accommodation, comfort, stability, speed.

In making the most out of it the actual size limit is going to be based on height within the weather hull bridgedeck. While keeping it a safe boat and at the same time offering an interesting interior with a liveable environment.

I dont doubt that projects such as the 60ft are important milestones for Denney, but if he can plug all that experience together in a compact boat kit the world will beat a path to his door.

as they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat....

[alansmith]

I think I have read every post. Some of it I don't understand. Through out history hasn't all new design upheavals been like what we are seeing in this post. Negativity, derisive banter, inflexible thought , entrenched positions at all cost and sometimes devoid of logic?

I have a friend who bought a Nissan Leaf all electic car several years ago for 40k. Now he is trying to sell it for 11k with about 15k miles on it. He believed the hype of 110 miles per charge. He was only getting 60-65 miles per charge. That is a radius of only 32 miles. Does anyone doubt what will be possible with all electrics in the next 10 years? Designs evolve, new technologies are created to solve issues, people buy in and prices come down... Blah blah blah.

With Denny's design... For me... I see it the same way as the electric car. It may end up being a great thing for the boating community. I am really interested to see how it all pans out. Keep an open mind my friends. If it is a good design King Neptune will let us know. If There is faulty logic it will become known. Remember the Ostar racer sometime back with the really long shaft on the keel with a heavy torpedo at the bottom? The racer could swing the keel depending on the tack. He set off from the east coast and was never seen again! They found the boat but, alas, no skipper. His wife or fiancé sued the architect for faulty design.

Denny's design is fresh. It has a lot of things going for it. Personally, I wish the best for his project and hope his goals of safety, speed, cost, and enjoyable yachting are obtained. Time will tell... Relax guys...wouldn't it be cool if he is right?

[Redreuben]

What I am enjoying is the genuine discussion and positive interest in the concept, it's about time, thanks to all.


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