Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat
I didn't see any GPS
or speed logs
, or wind speed indicators....
Certainly the bows needed fining up, that's an amazing amount of spray for 10-15 knots. Makes it look fast though.
You would have to discuss the speeds with Mark Giles, the most experienced multi journo in Aus at the time. He is the guy who claimed them. It's not really important as my point was whether harryproas are "unknown quantities" or not. The boat was set up for coastal cruising with new sails (which needed a recut).
I have asked before, but don't recall
an answer. How fast do you (and anyone else with an opinion) think it is going (based on the water going past the boat, rather than the spray) and how strong is the wind? Compare them both to the water and wind effects in the video of your very nice boat if it helps.
It's impossible to assess resale value or build cost of the Cruiser 18 until one has been built, sailed and sold. Much easier with catamarans. Maybe you could supply pro built costs of one off 40' and 60' cruising cats and their second hand value. We can at least compare this with the build cost of the Cruiser to see what it would need to sell second hand for as a comparison.
All the harryproa owners I have discussed this with buy their boats because of their unique properties, not because they want to sell them.
The same hull is always to windward because proas shunt. Shunting |
Less effort than an overlapping headsail, a little slower than tacking, a fair bit slower than gybing, and much safer and more reliable than either, especially in heavy weather
. See To jibe or not to jibe
for an idea of what is involved in not very strong (25 knots) winds on a cat.
To gybe the proa, you sail beam on to the wind, release the main sheet and pull it in from the other end (a couple of feet of lightly loaded sheet). As you do so, the boat stops and starts sailing in the opposite direction and you bear away onto the new course. No reefing and unreefing the mainsail
or furling/unfurling the jib, no rounding up, winching in the flogging sails, tacking without getting into irons or "zone of death" as you bear away and no surfing down waves while you sheet in the main and ease it out.
The design advantage of the different hulls is that you can have one hull for it's sailing qualities (long, low, lean and always to leeward) and one for it's living qualities (high, wide and always to windward, with plenty of space hanging off it. Makes it much easier to see the sails and keeps all the sailing action (and danger) away from those in the cockpit
There are more important reasons than total weight and purchase
cost for choosing an unstayed mast.
such as the much lower centre of gravity which significantly reduces pitching and the weight of the structure required to support it is less, making for a lighter boat overall. A data point: A 17.5m long Visionarry (the one in the first video) mast, with righting moment of 18 tonne metres (similar to the 44'cruising cat, I think) weighs 120 kgs, costs $Aus15,000/$US12,000. The cog is about 6m above the waterline.
The main advantage is the handling issues. To be able to raise, reef and lower the main regardless of wind strength or direction is a big deal for short handed sailors in unexpected squalls. The normal solution is to reduce sail for night sailing, when short handed or when the forecast
is bad. The unstayed rig can be completely depowered (or just left to weathercock, or sheeted on as much or as little as required) in seconds, on any point of sail. It also bends and depowers in gusts, which is a very effective safety
valve. Reefing with the sail pointing into the wind and the boat almost stationery is much easier and safer than with it partly filled and pressing against the shrouds. You keep full sail up until the wind increases, then reduce it quickly and safely.
The other big advantage is not having to worry about something breaking and the whole lot falling down. A properly designed and built unstayed mast will need no maintenance
, will not need to be climbed regularly to look for problems, won't need to be taken out every year or so and will never need new rigging
. These advantages apply to cats and monos as well.
Blasting through big seas with the early bows and rudders (those in the videos) kicks up a lot of spray. The new bows are finer, the rudders much less intrusive so there'll be less spray, but still some. It's a trade
off for rudders that can be steered when lifted, kick up in a collision
and don't require holes below the waterline or dagger boards
. The steering position is a long way upwind of the rudders, so the spray is unlikely to wet the crew.
Harryproa experience. Luc has sailed on at least one, I have sailed on several. You guys? Does not stop you having an opinion, but with some of your comments, it does indicate how much weight that opinion should be given.
If you can get Russ, Joe or Sven to intelligently discuss harryproas I will be pleasantly surprised. It is something I have been trying to do for nearly 20 years. You will have no trouble getting them to discuss me, and it will all be negative. All of them are or were (Joe and Sven seem to have given up, Russ is going gangbusters) my business competitors. As far as I know, none of them have sailed on a harry.