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Old 27-05-2015, 01:31   #241
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Re: New style Harryproa cruiser

With the sorts of pressures created by the bareboat charter industry there would have been serious investment and research into the yards response on how these boats should be laid out. But they are laid out with a considered list of compromises in mind according to the yards philosophy.

Take for example boatsmiths Ariki project which is out there on youtube. You can just see the yards experience in dealing with the custom fitout of the boat in the quality of the work and fittings they choose and how they deal with the issues that are presented to them. They come up with unique solutions because they have a close relationship to their customer, and they work as a team in completing the job.

In other respects, boats like the Pogo 30 which are very lightweight entertainment class boats which are not requiring of much more than 'camping' style fitout because theyre not intended for serious long term cruising. I would expect a lightweight inner moulding with attention paid to surface treatments, and be limited to that.

Whatever the yard is dealing with when they consolidate their plans, someone works on the appearance and ergonomics, and someone else looks at the tactile feel and the qualities of surfaces and trim, colours etc. At the same time the engineers are monitoring the weights and costs.

Expert yards like Hallberg-Rassey or Swan have particular ways of doing things that end up being their signature on what their customers can expect. I dont imagine that HP is going to go into those regions because those solutions tend to be heavy, and they dont reflect the sort of space age feel a truly modern concept like HP is capable of.

This is really the province of the industrial designer, but such work is hard to field if you want to get the right solutions for the boat. That said there is a growing group of studying industrial designers out there looking for masterpiece projects to get them through their final year, and problems like this present to them a fabulous opportunity to demonstrate their skills.

Your problem is, if you like 'as a community' we dont have any of that for the moment, so somehow as the builder you are going to have to think long and deep about how you go about this. I would suggest the best way to begin, is to look closely at what is being done, and work out from there.
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Old 06-06-2015, 22:38   #242
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Re: New style Harryproa cruiser

Nimble Motors, sorry it took sometime for a reply to your comment about "there is no comparison of an electric car to the Harry Pro." Of course there is not... nor was it intended to compare the two to each other. Perhaps it is just misunderstanding in what was written and misunderstood by the reader....or....or ....the writer didn't put his point across very well. That being said...


I am not comparing electric cars to Harry Proas. I am saying that design concepts come along every now and then that are game changing and maybe even revolutionary. The all electric cars like the Nissan Leaf and the hybrid Prius have changed forever the landscape of automobile design and usage. Do you have any doubts about what these designs will be in the next 10-20 years? How do you think about Google investing hundreds of millions of dollars in designs of automatic cars where you just enter a destination and the computer does everything else?
Worked for George Jetson...smile


My point was about new design concepts that come along and shake it up a little bit. I see Denny's Harry Proa as something that is not a Swan or a Chris White Atlantic Cat. It is different. To me it is exciting and hope the best for him. It is a bit of a paradigm shift. What did I know about shunting before being introduced to this Proa design? Nothing!


So, Nimble, Denny is basically trying to come up with something better and turn a nickel in the process. No harm done there. I am sure u would agree with that. I know when multihulls really started catching on there was so much negative press about them. Now they are mainstream in the yachting world. Is it not possible that people like the Denny's on this small blue orb can look at things a little differently than the normal guys and try a design that in "concept" are promising? That is the comparison I alluded to in my original post...that people come along and design things that shake it up...like electric or hybrid cars...now the Harry Proa is being put before us to consider. What a positive thing for the yachting community. I hope he succeeds
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Old 22-06-2015, 12:44   #243
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Re: New style Harryproa cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmith View Post
My point was about new design concepts that come along and shake it up a little bit. I see Denny's Harry Proa as something that is not a Swan or a Chris White Atlantic Cat. It is different. To me it is exciting and hope the best for him. It is a bit of a paradigm shift. What did I know about shunting before being introduced to this Proa design? Nothing!
Thank you Alan for putting things in perspective. Just to make sure the principle of the HarryProa is not that new at all. As a matter of fact it is used in the most record braking race oriented watercrafts for years.
I see it a bit like the early cars. They all looked initially very much like the hearses they replaced. Then race enthusiasts understood the value of streamlining. And within a decade or so even the modest family car became more streamlined.
The HarryProa cruiser brings lean and mean sailing to the mainstream but leaves the mean out in the process. And in this case the lean also allows the lazy. The rig is as simple as it gets without throwing out all efficiency. And yes, the hood is a bit long comparatively, but it also holds a pretty strong motor, so to say.
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Old 06-04-2016, 01:33   #244
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Re: New style Harryproa cruiser

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That would be useful. However, I am beyond race talk. What is of interest to me is to how close I come in maximum avg distance per day that my wife still finds comfortable given the sea state and the angle to the wind. Maybe we could call these psypolars ;-)
It's funny that was Rob's original justification for the design, Sue's comfort, along with everything else. She has pretty much been tossed overboard in all subsequent design considerations, but probably more than anything because it turned out the real demand for these designs jumped an order of magnitude to where people wanted 50 and 60 footers.

I found the design really interesting at the earlier 32-40 foot parameter, and bought some plans because you got accommodations better than anything else you have ever been on in a boat, and very economical construction. (and also because a bunch of us multi guys had built a tri and a cat, and wanted to round out the fleet). Once you hit the 60 foot length, if the boat is as good as it may well be why would anyone pass those advantages on to the client.

As far as I know plans and improvements for the smaller designs have never been made. Many of the complications of the design are pretty unreasonable on a small boat, the helm station for instance, has always either seemed overbuild for such small a boat, to non-existent. When you would like to be 15 or more feet from the work, it is hard to put the whole thing comfortably down to a tiller. But these are the kinds of issue that are pretty unimportant on a really large boat; enough money is being thrown at problems to get them under control.

You can read about the early days here:

Harry
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Old 06-04-2016, 11:53   #245
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Re: New style Harryproa cruiser

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... I found the design really interesting at the earlier 32-40 foot parameter,
extending the range of HP's new style with the 40' Exhilarator
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Old 08-04-2016, 02:08   #246
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Re: New style Harryproa cruiser

Thom,
Many thanks for the trip down memory lane. I had forgotten that article existed.

We have concentrated on the bigger boats, as that is where the demand has been, but the last few years have been more about the build method than the boats. The result is Intelligent Infusion which eliminates most of the mess, hard work and skill from boatbuilding. At the same time significantly reducing the labour and the weight and improving the quality. Intelligent Infusion | for the details, including animations.

The other area of focus in the last couple of years has been in designing a charter race proa that allows anyone with basic knowledge to race a fast multi. And make it cheap and simple enough that it won't break the bank to do so. The result is Bucket List, which is so simple that we will pay for any non collision damage incurred.

The prototype should be sailing later this year. Once it is debugged, we will build 4 of them, put them in a shipping container and ship them to regattas around the world. Intelligent Infusion |
A great way for cruising skippers and crew to experience high speed multihull racing in exotic locations without having to use/risk/transport their own boat.

Once the prototype is debugged, I will make it suitable for my wife (Sue) to enjoy cruising by replacing the racing windward hull with one of several hulls we built while developing Intelligent Infusion. Solitarry |
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Old 08-04-2016, 09:29   #247
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Re: New style Harryproa cruiser

Waiting to see what you have spawned. Best of luck to your project.
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Old 05-05-2017, 20:21   #248
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Re: New style Harryproa cruiser

Bump

What special precautions does an asymmetrical boat have to take during haul out? Does weight placement in the hulls critically effect stability in the slings?

Does one store water in the windward hull, or in the leeward hull, with piping to bring it to where it is used? (thinking 20M craft)

What bows have been decided are best... blunt (with spray) or reverse slope? Or simple knife edge... and what impact does intelligent infusion have on the choices. Or has the benefit of coming to a stop at a bulkhead, and then capping with a sacrificial foam tip remained the solution of choice?

With the dinghy slung into the deck, don't odd bits (like cleats) start attracting toes and lines? What special hardware is needed to keep the dinghy from twisting and torquing its way to destruction when acting as an engine in rougher seas?
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Old 07-05-2017, 01:57   #249
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Re: New style Harryproa cruiser

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What special precautions does an asymmetrical boat have to take during haul out?
None, in the case of a harry. The flat bottoms, solid glass chines and no prop shafts, keels or rudders protruding below the waterline makes it easy on a trailer, travel lift or trolley. I discovered another advantage of flat bottomed, rockerless hulls today. Bucket List (12m harry) has copper filled epoxy for antifouling (cheaper to mix your own rather than buy it ready mixed) which is hard, but not as effective as the biocide laden paints. After 2 months, there was some slime and a few small barnacles on the bottom. I put the boat on a sandy beach, let it drift around in 75mm/3" of water for 10 minutes so it was rubbing on the sand which removed all the growth and probably exposed new copper. Then took it out into waist deep water to scrape and scrub the chine, turned up bows and the topsides. Still not a pleasant chore, but easier than any other boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysailor View Post
Does weight placement in the hulls critically effect stability in the slings?
No, but one side may be heavier than the other. This requires a bit of trial and error for a crane hoist from a single point, but slings are the same as for a cat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysailor View Post
Does one store water in the windward hull, or in the leeward hull, with piping to bring it to where it is used? (thinking 20M craft)
Whichever you like, or both. The windward hull has a max recommended displacement, which is about 60% of the total boat. Any additional load should be stored in the lee hull where, unlike on a cat or tri, it has no structural effect on the rig or beams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysailor View Post
What bows have been decided are best... blunt (with spray) or reverse slope? Or simple knife edge... and what impact does intelligent infusion have on the choices. Or has the benefit of coming to a stop at a bulkhead, and then capping with a sacrificial foam tip remained the solution of choice?
We have just done an 11m with 300mm/12" glued on ends which serve the same purpose (impact absorption) as the foam ends but are made in the Intelligent Infusion mould along with the rest of the hull. Saves a couple of days of shaping, glassing and fairing foam.
On a cruiser, bow shapes will not make a lot of difference. The blunt shapes of the early harrys were there for extra buoyancy as everyone assured me they would sail bow down. They don't, so the bows are now sharp. My preference is low and vertical, but reverse is not a problem. Both are easy with Intelligent Infusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysailor View Post
With the dinghy slung into the deck, don't odd bits (like cleats) start attracting toes and lines?
The dinghys are completely flush decked when stowed apart from the bow cleat and stern cleats which can easily be covered with a blister block to make them smooth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysailor View Post
What special hardware is needed to keep the dinghy from twisting and torquing its way to destruction when acting as an engine in rougher seas?
The dinghy is wide and high so strong in torsion. The mountings are solidly attached to the beams and the connection is 2 x 100mm/4" diameter pins.

Good questions, please keep them coming.
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:07   #250
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Kleen Breeze

Kleen Breeze, a 60+ foot custom Harryproa, was launched some weeks ago. While it is being fitted out further for chartering the first test sails in up to 25 knots of wind went well. Although the boat is the result of an older design and build method this is relevant for the HP cruiser series as discussed in this thread as it also features the novel combination of schooner sails and bidirectional Speer foil rudder/boards at each bow end. Tests in higher wind and sea state conditions should confirm that what is neat in theory works out as well in practice, but so far, so good.

In the meantime one of the first video's (boat doing about 9 knots) gives a good impression of the spaciousness of the deck ready to be fitted out for diving expeditions and stalling water toys.
Kleen Breeze first sails
Kleen Breeze compared to the latest version of Cruiser 60 as found on the designer's blog.

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