New Manta 46 catamaran in design/development

[Southern Star]

Colemj, I assume that the people involved in this project are not the same as those involved originally with Manta. If not, there is certainly no guarantee that the quality of build/performance will be anywhere near that of your own boat. Consider, for example, the reincarnated 'Prout' name that was applied to a line of cats that were recently built in China.

Brad

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

Colemj, I assume that the people involved in this project are not the same as those involved originally with Manta. If not, there is certainly no guarantee that the quality of build/performance will be anywhere near that of your own boat. Consider, for example, the reincarnated 'Prout' name that was applied to a line of cats that were recently built in China.

Brad

Actually, the person heading this project is the principal person from the original Manta who built and spec'd that boat. He was the one responsible for the build specs, designing the systems and outfitting the boat as standard. He is interested in making a more modern "Manta".

The naval architect he is working with is the one the original Manta used to design their powercat.

Mark

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Our 46 foot mono has a lightship displacement of 9 1/2 tonnes, and that includes 4 tonnes of the dreaded lead ballast and all the usual equipment.

That is an unusually light boat you have there Jim! Just casually clicking around, you weigh the same as a J133 racing boat lightship, and a Benetaeu Oceanis 48 is 28,000lbs lightship!

You would need to compare your boat's weight to something like a Gunboat to really be apples and apples.

Mark

[Southern Star]

Glad to hear it. A short while ago I recall mention that somebody was apparently talking about building the original Manta again (and a larger boat) while simultaneously listing the trade-name 'Manta' for sale. Was this a different person (or was that information incorrect)?

Brad

[colemj]

That was a different person, which I mentioned in the OP. He was a pack of lies. He claimed he owned the catamaran molds and was prepping them for use. He also claimed he owned the powercat molds and would build them. This was all a lie - the sail catamaran molds are useless. They were bought by a Chinese company but found to be in such disrepair as to not be salvageable. The powercat molds were sold to Gemini/Hunter/Marlow. I don't know what they plan to do with them. That guy has been issued cease and desist from both companies that actually own the molds.

The guy setup a "Manta" website, which included usurping the original website and materials, and has been trying to sell the domain. While he could come up with some type of boat and call it a Manta, I doubt he is in any position to do so.

Mark

[Canibul]

I absolutely love the hard top and arches on the Mantas. I wish someone in the US would sell me a kit that I could have shipped down to put together to do basically the same setup on our Catalac. I've emailed Atlantic Towers about it, but it basically hasn't gone anywhere.

[Southern Star]

Thanks Colemj, and again, glad to hear it. I'm rooting for him!

Brad

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Canibul

I absolutely love the hard top and arches on the Mantas. I wish someone in the US would sell me a kit that I could have shipped down to put together to do basically the same setup on our Catalac. I've emailed Atlantic Towers about it, but it basically hasn't gone anywhere.

Manta even farmed that out, and they were hand built for each boat after production. The best way is to have someone measure, design and build one for you, but that is probably not a common thing where you are.

Mark

[colemj]

The design brief has been published in Multihulls Quarterly (I thought it was in BWS, but I think they are owned by the same company). The specs and lots of renderings are in it.

MM_May_June_2014

There is also a good writeup on Morrelli and Melvin, as well as some interesting foiling catamaran stuff.

Mark

[Southern Star]

Thanks Mark, I much appreciate the link. If they can price it competitively with the Antares 44i, I think they will have a real winner. She has various desing features that I have come to love ony my boat:

- the small dual, upward curving chines - they allow a finer underbody and higher Cp for performance, while maintaining beam above the waterline where needed for accomodation. The upward curves of the chines fore and aft will match the waterline in extremis and reduce not only the risk of pitchpoling, but also excessive hobby-horsing.

- a walkway dividing the tramps for safe access to the furling gear (and also to strengthen the tramps as they are smaller ones supported on 8, rather than 4 sides).

- small portlights in the topsides rather than the currently popular 'picture windows'.

- a small, secure companioway door rather than the ubiquitous sliding glass 'patio doors' installed on most current cats.

- although my boat has a full-width bow pulpit for a secure foredeck, the Manta comes close with large pulpits. plus forward stanchions and dual lifelines.

While I would prefer partial skegs for a boat intended to go offhore, I love the keel/centerboard arrangement and the stand-up engine rooms. She looks like a true 'sail-anywhere' design that should suit their intended market to a tee.

Finger's crossed that they have the financing in place to put them in production in the US.

Brad

[mcarling]

For comparison, the cruising displacement of Chris White's Atlantic 47 is 18,000 lbs.

[colemj]

Yes, there are certainly lighter catamarans - but I think they are going after a different market. I would put the "Manta 46" in the Lagoon, FP, FreeFlow, Catana etc market - where it is considerably better equipped and same weight or lighter (on paper!).

I wonder how much that Atlantic 47 would weigh if it was similarly equipped? And you will be paying >45% more for that less equipped, but lighter A47.

Maybe the best way to compare boats is cost. So for this comparison, what other boats are available fitted and delivered at the $750,000 price point and how do they compare in features and specs?

This would group similar markets together - Gunboat/Atlantic/Schionning, for example.

Mark

[mcarling]

An Atlantic 47 is more expensive, but at just over $1M it's not >45% more expensive. What equipment does one get with this new Manta 46 than one doesn't get with an A47?

[colemj]

Originally Posted by mcarling

An Atlantic 47 is more expensive, but at just over $1M it's not >45% more expensive. What equipment does one get with this new Manta 46 than one doesn't get with an A47?

I don't know anything more than what is published in that article. I do own a previous generation Manta, and if the new one holds true to the old, it will come stuffed standard with gear that all other manufacturers consider optional. That is an assumption of course - this boat is only a design concept right now.

Sorry about my math, I was doing it in my head - $1,073,000 is only 43% more expensive than $750,000 according to my calculator. Of course, if you do not live in Chile, there is that little bit of cost to get your A47 to you.

I'm not debating or comparing anything other than to say it may be better to group boats in similar price ranges when comparing them. I don't consider >$1M to be in the same price range as $750K. You may consider differently.

Mark