New Lagoon 42 Vs Lucia-40 ?

[twohapence]

I know this is an old thread so apologies......

I'm in the market for a new cat and have been touring the various boat shows and demo days. I enjoyed a test sail of the Lucia 40 in the Solent yesterday and.....

I was impressed.

There wasn't a lot of wind and what there was tended to be very variable, with gusts and eddies making sail trimming a pretty constant operation. She accelerated quickly in the gusts, tacked nicely through the wind and, using the autopilot tacking function, I was able to manage her singlehanded without fuss while the sales team chatted to my wife.

There are three winches in front of the helm, one powered. It's a nice layout and easy to use. The port Genoa sheet is led through as well as the mainsheet and mainsheets track lines. The starboard Genoa sheet comes directly to the helm. In winds up to about 14 knots I didn't have the need to use the power function on the winch. I did, of course, just to make sure it all worked. I'd be perfectly happy sailing the boat on my own.

The main went up easily, and I only used a winch for the last few feet. The first reef is set up as a single line system, the second two need to have someone at the mast to secure the reefing cringle and then the reefing pennants can be used from the helm. The genoa furls away cleanly without needing to be winched.

She was responsive to the helm and there was good feedback at the wheel. The motion through the chop was nice and easy and she wasn't troubled by the wake from larger power boats moving at speed. The clearance under the bridgedeck is good and she feels like she'd handle larger waves without any issues.

Under motor she performed well, again accelerating quickly when the throttles are pushed forwards. There was no hobby-horsing under power. The boat I tested had the larger 30HP engines. I'll specify these when I place the order. (Told you I was impressed! :-) ) I'll also fit folding props as there's a fair amount of vibration if the props are left to freewheel under sail and putting the engine into gear when sailing to stop the rotation is like pulling on the parking brake.

I thought the engine installation was well thought out and access all round the motor to the peripherals was good. I had to change the impeller on a 380 and it was a pretty cramped and uncomfortable experience. The same task on the Lucia would be considerably easier and a lot more comfortable. Plus - if you did happen to drop the odd nut or bolt it's easy to pick it up again. On the 380 they vanished.

At low speeds under power the wheel becomes irrelevant. I found it best to centre it and use the engines to steer the boat. When the power comes off then the windage takes over which creates an instant steering input that could well catch out the unwary in crowded docking situations. It's soon corrected with a quick burst of power. Visibility of the aft port quarter from the helm isn't great but visibility forward with the genoa furled is fabulous. With the genoa unrolled it's easier to pop into the saloon to see forward. The view from inside is great!

The interior feels like it will work well for us, a cruising couple. There's plenty of room for "house guests". The open plan stepless access from cockpit to saloon gives plenty of space and there's no feeling of being crowded. Stowage in the owner's hull is good. There's plenty of room to hang clothes, shelf space for books, a massive drawer under the bunk, and a neat little desk/dressing table. Visibility from the cabins is good. Access to the bed is great, at least you can come at it from the side instead of shuffling along on your bottom from the end of the bunk!

The aft cabin in the port hull is good. Same size bed as the owner has. Stowage is more limited though. The forward cabin is quite a bit smaller. I think the heads are oversized in the port hull. It would be better to have a single heads with shower shared between both cabins and use the space to make the forward cabin a bit bigger with a wider bed and more storage space.

I sailed six up in a lagoon 380 last year. We chartered with a view to buying. There's no doubt we would have been more comfortable on the Lucia and I think the performance is at least as good. The 380 was hard work just about everything had to be done on the two speed electric winch. Accomodation was cramped in comparison. I also walked round the Lagoon 39. The layout doesn't work as well for me and it is a heavy boat in comparison. I'm going to have a look at the new 42 at the Southampton Boat Show but it's not for me and I'll explain why.

I agree with previous posters that these boats are very different and perhaps aren't the best two to compare. My cruising area is the med. Mooring fees are based on length * breadth plus a multiplier for having the audacity to sail a cat. That's a 23% hike in overnight fees for the 42 compared to the Lucia. Plus it's 23% more expensive to winter ashore or keep in a Marina. Then it becomes an issue to find a yard that can lift a boat that's 7.7 Mtrs wide.

With 94 Sq Mtrs of sail area the 42 has 50% more plain sail than the Lucia. Again, for a cruising couple that adds another dimension to the forces involved, the effort and the complexity of managing the boat. With "only" 78 Sq Mtrs of sail I found the 380 required a lot of effort to sail and the lines were under considerable load.

I agree with other comments - the Lucia is over-priced and the options are expensive. We'll fit a number of the options as self installs after purchase and delivery. Solar panels, additional batteries, instruments, autopilot, and so on.

Finally - I often see other posters saying such and such a solution doesn't work, or the boat is too small, or whatever without spending time on board. I think what they mean is - In their opinion the boat wouldn't work for them in their situation. For me the Lucia is a sensible step up from my current 30ft cruising cat which is very much a "holiday" boat. We'll buy the Lucia for long term cruising in the Med following my retirement and it will be the third boat we've owned. It works for us and our needs. YMMV.

[fabgo]

Twohapence,

Thanks for the great review.

I have a couple of questions. I thought two heads (single head in the port hull) was an option on this boat? Did you consider this option?

Also, I don't quite understand your comment about the sail area. I looked it up, and according to the specs the Lucia has more sail area than the Lagoon 42 - 95 m2 vs. 94 m2. Am I missing something?

Regards,
- Fabian

[twohapence]

Originally Posted by fabgo

I have a couple of questions. I thought two heads (single head in the port hull) was an option on this boat? Did you consider this option?

Also, I don't quite understand your comment about the sail area. I looked it up, and according to the specs the Lucia has more sail area than the Lagoon 42 - 95 m2 vs. 94 m2. Am I missing something?

Single heads is an option but the *footprint* of the heads remains the same. Two small heads = 1 big heads.

Now I'm confused about sail area. The web site says

"Sail area 58 m² / 624.30 ft²" and then goes on to state "Genoa area37 m² / 398.26 ft²". I give in. All I can say is that the sail handling was so easy in comparison to the Lagoon 380 I took the first figure as being true. I'll go and sulk now......

[DrewT]

twohapence

Thank you very much for this review. I've not had a chance to step on a Lucia 40 (hoping to see one Annapolis later this year), but it's one I've had my eye open for extensive reviews on single I learned of its existence.

[AJPT]

Twohapence your situation sounds very similar to ours. Im looking forward to seeing the Lucia at the Southampton boat show. I have recently struck up comms with Carl from fp, is this who you dealt with?
How big is the space in the forward lockers? Big enough for a surfboard ?
Which equipment do you think you will retro fit?

Andrew


Sent from my SM-T800 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[One Day More]

Originally Posted by fabgo

Twohapence,

Thanks for the great review.

I have a couple of questions. I thought two heads (single head in the port hull) was an option on this boat? Did you consider this option?

Also, I don't quite understand your comment about the sail area. I looked it up, and according to the specs the Lucia has more sail area than the Lagoon 42 - 95 m2 vs. 94 m2. Am I missing something?

Regards,
- Fabian

Two heads in the port hull wasn't our preference but we accepted it ( hull no 6). The 1 head option enables a separate head and shower which is nice and more spacious.

Haven't got any comments on the sail area at present. However the boat with 2 reefs in the main and reeled Genoa, and 16-17 knots of wind has done 8-9 knots.

[One Day More]

Originally Posted by AJPT

Twohapence your situation sounds very similar to ours. Im looking forward to seeing the Lucia at the Southampton boat show. I have recently struck up comms with Carl from fp, is this who you dealt with?
How big is the space in the forward lockers? Big enough for a surfboard ?
Which equipment do you think you will retro fit?

Andrew


Sent from my SM-T800 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

The forward locker is big enough for the 3 foredeck cushions you see in the FP photos, so I presume big enough for a small board, otherwise lash to the rail. We have the 3 solar panels from FP which can be ordered plus 4 flexipanels. In hindsight it might have been slightly cheaper, but not much in it, if had all been retrofitted. Hope this helps.

[jbinbi]

I was just looking through my files from last year, I had a quote from a dealer for a FP40 @ 450USD delivered with electronics, AC, gen, etc. Just wondering if it is still running in that price range?

[twohapence]

Originally Posted by AJPT

Twohapence your situation sounds very similar to ours. Im looking forward to seeing the Lucia at the Southampton boat show. I have recently struck up comms with Carl from fp, is this who you dealt with?
How big is the space in the forward lockers? Big enough for a surfboard ?
Which equipment do you think you will retro fit?

There's one locker forward of the saloon and it's jam packed with the water tanks on the starboard side, the anchor winch and chain takes up the middle section and there's a fairly cavernous area to port for fenders and lines. Not sure you'd easily get a surfboard in there across the tanks but I guess it depends on the size of the board...... :-) There's no other stowage forward of the saloon I can remember.

I would expect to run a line along the forward bulkhead of the locker to hang mooring ropes and spare lines from. Otherwise it will be a bit of a scramble to recover them from in among the fenders.

Retro fit? First pass is: -

Additional battery
Battery Monitor - probably a NASA BM-2 will tell me all I need to know. I have one on my current boat.
Autopilot
Instruments
4 * 100 watt Solar Panels
Still thinking about a wind generator. Like the idea of the power - especially early or late season - but not keen on the noise.
Do *not* want a generator. Do *not* want to be parked near anyone asocial enough to run a generator in an anchorage.
Watermaker.
Freezer (Maybe)
Gangway / Passarelle
RIB/Outboard combo
3G/4G external aerial
Wifi repeater.
Curtains from the saloon. Will ask SWMBO to run some up.
Have ordered folding props - will see what's on offer at S'oton and may decide to go for an alternative to the factory fit.
25 Kg Spade, chain and nylon rode
Fortress kedge, chain and nylon rode - I have an FX23 - may upgrade to a 37.
Still thinking about whether I need a liferaft if I have a RIB attached to the stern of a boat that is, in theory, unsinkable.
Will take my exsting Mast Climber. Easy way to get to the top of the mast without assistance other than someone tailing the safety line.

Our plan is to head to the Med. Some marinas want silly prices for an overnight berth. we were quoted €55 out of season for our current 9 * 5 cat. For water alone we were invited to pay €22. I suspect it won't be long before local byelaws appear that prohibit you from anchoring just outside a port.

So good ground tackle is essential if you're going to anchor off. We have a spade and it has performed exceedingly well. Will go for a bigger one. Plenty of solar capacity to run the watermaker. Decent RIB to go ashore.

I'll probably add in an inverter later if required.

Won't be adding radar or big colour plotters. Better to buy some iThings with big screens and greater functionality for the type of sailing I do.

There's a ledge in the engine compartment on the starboard side that looks pretty free. The batteries occupy the space on the Stb side. I'll check to see if that will make a suitable garage for a couple of folding bikes and if so add appropriate padding and tie down points. The man with the tape measure and ntebook crawling all over the boat at S'oton is probably going to be me......

Happy if you want to PM me.....

Oh - and then there's the shopping list.

Anchoring and motorsailing day signals.
Fire blanket and cylinders.
Flares
EPIRB
Radar reflector
Additional lines and fenders.
Fender board
New lifejackets
Jack Stays
Additional handholds either side of the saloon externally.
Board and handhold at the entrance to the starboard hull to prevent the end of the settee getting really grotty.
Danbuoy
lifesling and floating rope
Some sort of spool for mooring lines. Currently we have 100 Mtrs of 8mm nylon three strand for taking ashore when required.
Rigging cutters.
Tool kit
Mugs, cutlery, tablewear, pots & pans, containers.....
and so on.... Some will come from the current boat. Some will be new. I'm aiming to start hoarding stuff now!

[AJPT]

Thats some great info you have shared there. Thank you.

I am in the same boat as you ref the generator, expensive, heavy, noisy, something else to go wrong, have you thought about a in water turbine?

At the moment I am a few steps behind you, we haven't ordered yet, have a list of about 5 boats that we need to sail/view. Inc a Lagoon 42, Hanse 505 (mono I know), Bali and Nautitech.

When are you going to receive your Lucia? Are you going to have it moored in the UK for a few months then bug out to the med? Or going to evade the tax and head over the Atlantic?

I'm waiting to see how this Brexit will affect the tax situation as it might be beneficial to wait to buy in the UK when we are out and then sail to the med for tax free sailing. Speculation of course!

Where are you going to register your Lucia?

[AJPT]

By the way and its just my personal opinion (I have been wrong in the past) After doing many sea survival courses for my work and spending years on boats at sea (big boats, small boats and everything inbetween) Definantely get a Life raft. If the boat sinks, its going to invariably go down real quick and in bad seas. Its murphy's law!


I may take you up on the PM's nearer the time if I decide to go Lucia.

[twohapence]

Originally Posted by AJPT

Thats some great info you have shared there. Thank you.

I am in the same boat as you ref the generator, expensive, heavy, noisy, something else to go wrong, have you thought about a in water turbine?

At the moment I am a few steps behind you, we haven't ordered yet, have a list of about 5 boats that we need to sail/view. Inc a Lagoon 42, Hanse 505 (mono I know), Bali and Nautitech.

When are you going to receive your Lucia? Are you going to have it moored in the UK for a few months then bug out to the med? Or going to evade the tax and head over the Atlantic?

I'm waiting to see how this Brexit will affect the tax situation as it might be beneficial to wait to buy in the UK when we are out and then sail to the med for tax free sailing. Speculation of course!

Where are you going to register your Lucia?

Tax question is interesting. Build lead time means we'll get the boat in September 2017. We'll take delivery tax free in Gib and overwinter before heading off towards Turkey for the 2018 season. If article 50 is triggered in early 2017 then we'll come out of the EU in 2019 and we'll then be able to start hopping between Turkey and the EU without being liable for VAT.

Turbine is another interesting question. The Med is usually feast or famine as far as wind is concerned. If there's no wind and we motor we won't need a turbine because the amps will come from the alternators. If the wind is very light then we won't want the drag from a turbine. After all, we're spending a lot of money on folding props to improve sailing performance in light airs.

If there's a lot of wind forecast we'll be plugged into shore power....

Can't see why we wouldn't register the boat in the UK or am I missing something?

[twohapence]

Originally Posted by AJPT

Definantely get a Life raft. If the boat sinks, its going to invariably go down real quick and in bad seas. Its murphy's law!

The FP website states

"The unsinkable nature and interior partitioning of our boats are key factors in their safety. Pockets of air or foam in the ends of the boat make it unsinkable. The watertight partitioning of each hull mean they can be sealed off in the event of accident or leak."

I'm thinking that the biggest risk we'll face where we'd need to abandon is fire. In which case the RIB will launch as quickly as the liferaft and there's never going to be a question of "if" it will inflate. Liferafts don't always work when put to the test. Maybe we'd be better hiring for a long passage.

Monohulls are a different story altogether. They're designed to sink if holed.......

[AJPT]

I was wondering - if the boat was purchased whilst we were still in the EU would that vessel fall under a different rule to a vessel that was purchased when we finally left the EU. Sounds mad I know but stranger things have happened.

I have heard there are several advantages to having a boat registered in the US, not sure it would apply to you or me for that fact but could do if you want to cruise the US.

I hear you reference the turbine, makes sense.

The titanic was unsinkable too, that didn't end to well.

From that paragraph does that mean the Lucia has water tight bulk heads? I can't work out what they mean, closing a wooden door on a compartment with a hole in the bulkhead isn't going to save the boat.

[fabgo]

Both of these boats seem to have very, very little storage space, apart from bookshelves. A strange concept in the age of e-readers.

Are these boats really suitable for full-time cruising?