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Old 19-06-2012, 17:32   #1
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New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

I would like some opinions on what boat would be a good "starter" multi-hull for my wife and I. Our budget would allow us to purchase a nearly new Gemini 105mc, or a 10+ year old Lagoon 380. This boat would be used strictly for use year round on Puget Sound, and we will upgrade to a mid 40' in a few years to try our luck at bluewater sailing. Thanks in advance.

JB
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Old 19-06-2012, 17:43   #2
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

If all things are the same, it seems that the Gemini is a boat you'll probably outgrow, while the Lagoon may indeed be enough boat for your cruising needs.

Setting up a new boat is fun, but you'll lose every dime you put into it in terms of electronics, et cetera. On the other hand, if you purchase a used boat that was set up (and cared for) well, the other guy loses the money.
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Old 19-06-2012, 17:56   #3
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

As above,

New boat, lots of options cost a lot of extra money,

Older boat, has all the options already on it,
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Old 19-06-2012, 18:35   #4
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
If all things are the same...the Lagoon may indeed be enough boat for your cruising needs...
I agree with Bash.

However, there is a saying that goes something like, "...buy a boat for what you can do with it now, not what you plan to do with it later..."

To paraphrase John Lennon, "Life happens when you are making other plans."

If you can afford the Lagoon and use it now, that would be my choice.

Good Luck with your choice!

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Old 19-06-2012, 18:53   #5
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

Have you been on either? Just asking, If you had I' am not sure you would ask this question.

If you have not, you should visit them both, entirely different boats. Gem's seem to be depreciating faster these days, seen some 02-04's selling in the 90's. Will probably be less when these later models start having issues
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Old 19-06-2012, 19:15   #6
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

New boats have warrentees. Some stuff breaks anyway, and sometime the warrentee pays.

Old boats require more repairs. It's expensive to get someone else to do it. Parts aren't always available. Most people throw cars away at 10 years.

You have a boat now, so you must have some feel for this. Be honest with yourself and repairs. Does it bug you or not? Many people enjoy maintanance, for some perverse reason, many do not. Some like "new", some it means very little to. Some clean and pollish, some don't.
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Old 19-06-2012, 21:19   #7
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

If the boat is going to spend much of its time at the dock I would vote for the Gemini as slips would be much easier to find and a heck of a lot cheaper. There are a lot of lightly used Geminis for sale along the west coast which would be much cheaper than new and a used 380, invest the remaining boat fund for your future bluewater boat. In a few years when you take on further adventures from the Puget Sound you will have a better idea of what you want and who knows what will be available in you price range at that time.
Just my opinion but I think both are great boats for very different reasons. Good luck in your search.
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Old 19-06-2012, 22:49   #8
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

Is this a liveaboard, or a starter cat to learn on? If you are going to liveaboard, I would stretch for a somewhat newer than 10 year Lagoon 380 or larger, unless you are sure that you will find the Gemini comfortable and pleasant for year round living. I find it a little enclosed, dark, and strangely laid out compared to the Lagoon. That is matter of preference, but I could live comfortable on a Lagoon, whereas I could not on a Gemini.

If you are not living aboard, I suggest considering more of a day-sailing cat, or an older gemini, with the intent that you are only learning to sail and having some fun. You'll get more performance and speed while learning some ins-and-outs.

Since you said "Year Round" use in Puget Sound, I guess you mean liveaboard. Myself, I would find a way to make a Lagoon fit into my budget. Keep in mind the new boat will quickly lose value. A used Lagoon will depreciate less, but will also require more repairs. This makes the affordability factor something of a "push", while the liveability of the Lagoon strongly sways me in that direction.

If you will stay in one area, you can easily determine the cost difference in slips for the two boats and make a judgement from there.

You might want to start separate threads on the year-round livability of these two boats, since you will be in a temperate zone with distinct seasonalities. Given the dark rainy winters in that area, I once again would swing to the Lagoon due to the superior lightness of the interior, but have no idea as to their ability to remain comfortable in cool damp weather.

Basically I don't see any pluses for a NEW gemini, except that it COULD be used as a long-term cruising boat, giving you 10 years or more of liveaboard lifestyle - would you want to live on the same boat that long? I do see pluses for the older boats, either Gemini or Lagoon.
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Old 19-06-2012, 23:13   #9
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

I would be very ... no ... extremely careful of buying an old boat! Whilst one does get a boat loaded with extras which the seller may never recover, it is also prudent to KNOW what systems the guy has installed, how old they are and in what condition they are! I have seen too many friends spending way too much time and money with thier boats out of the water being repaired instead of in the water sailing! I have preferred to buy a new boat and install my own systems ... even new boats take a lot of time in maintenance, let alone old boats! If you want to buy a used boat, I would suggest one from a charter fleet which has had a full time 'crew' (husband and wife team) running it, such as from Moorings. The skippers keep the boats clean, well maintained and you could spend some time with him going through the boats history and systems setup.
It is very seldom that a good 'deal' happens with used boats ... it usually means 'hard work and frustration'.
Sadly we have had to leave friends behind on our journeys 'together' just because thier boats broke down too often and repair times were too slow! The enjoyment of sailing is easily lost in a situation like that, whereas I think part of our enjoyment in what we do (we are on our boat 24/7) is that we are ontop of our boat maintenance and it is always clean and organised! Have you looked into 'the moorings charter program?' ... I think one can put down a deposit and have the boat pay its instalments for 5 years after which there is a residual amount to come up with ... some say they put it back into the fleet after 5 years to keep payments going. Personally we have not done this ... we were fortunate to be able to buy it new from Lagoon, but if it was out of my reach I would probably consider it providing they chartered it with a 'permanent crewed
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Old 20-06-2012, 09:01   #10
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

Thanks for the great opinions, I have a lot to think about. I am leery of an older boat due to needed repairs and "tweaks" done by the previous owner. Our Catalina 42's previous owner was an electrical engineer, and has some quite creative alterations done to her electrical system which I have not been able to figure our. I am a beginner at best in the repair department, and often make things worse than they were to begin with! I have been on a Lagoon 380, and was blown away by its space and relative luxury. I have not been on a Gemini, but have an appointment to look at one tomorrow. We do not live aboard, but will take several overnight trips throughout the year. We went from NO sailing experience right into our Catalina 42, which was a pretty big step for my wife and I, and don't want to make a similar mistake getting too much catamaran for our level of sailing experience (3 years). We are lucky to have our boat moored less than 5 minutes away from our home, and that is where our new boat would be moored.
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Old 20-06-2012, 09:39   #11
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

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I am leery of an older boat due to needed repairs and "tweaks" done by the previous owner.
This is one of the perceived (by me) advantages of buying a charter boat. My hope is that such a boat has not had "creative" modifications, but just bare-basic repairs more-or-less to factory standards. My other perceived advantage is that I would be able to enter the boat for less money, gain experience on her, and outfit her "as I go" according to my real needs, rather than my imagined needs or someone else's imagined needs.

I'm prepared to deal with the additional wear, but like you I don't want to deal with someone else's bubble-gum and duct-tape handiwork.
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Old 20-06-2012, 09:48   #12
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

I would go with the used Lagoon 380.
More room
Wider beam
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Old 20-06-2012, 11:51   #13
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

We found the Gemini perfect for Puget Sound, bought it new in 2002 (our first boat) and used it extensively to learn and gunkhole all over and up in the Gulf islands. In 2009 we spent 5 weeks onboard and circumnavigated Vancouver island. We docked it in a standard 36' slip.

At one stage we flew to Miami to find our next catamaran and decided nothing we saw was worth the price difference. Last year my wife and I sailed to Mexico and spent 7 months onboard in Cabo, La Paz, Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan.

Cheers.
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Old 20-06-2012, 22:07   #14
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

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Originally Posted by Islander View Post
We found the Gemini perfect for Puget Sound, bought it new in 2002 (our first boat) and used it extensively to learn and gunkhole all over and up in the Gulf islands. In 2009 we spent 5 weeks onboard and circumnavigated Vancouver island. We docked it in a standard 36' slip.

At one stage we flew to Miami to find our next catamaran and decided nothing we saw was worth the price difference. Last year my wife and I sailed to Mexico and spent 7 months onboard in Cabo, La Paz, Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan.

Cheers.
Sounds awesome! Have any pics or a blog? We always enjoy learning about other boats and systems
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Old 21-06-2012, 10:52   #15
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Re: New Gemini 105 or old Lagoon 380

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Originally Posted by JoeBink View Post
I would like some opinions on what boat would be a good "starter" multi-hull for my wife and I. Our budget would allow us to purchase a nearly new Gemini 105mc, or a 10+ year old Lagoon 380. This boat would be used strictly for use year round on Puget Sound, and we will upgrade to a mid 40' in a few years to try our luck at bluewater sailing. Thanks in advance.

JB
I'm glad you started this thread, we have been looking for a used cat and really like the 380. Even considering an older Lagoon 42 TPI or a 410 during our search over the past two years. Our budget was about $150k which is obviously part of why we have not had any success yet. Was out on the water last week in a Catalina 22 rental and we pulled up next to a Gemini 105mc underway. She looked pretty on the water.

I have been aboard the Gemini at the Annapolis boat show. Cons: limited visibility from helm, hit my head several times in the cabin, small beam, no tramp. Pros: small beam cuts down on marina costs, tremendous availability stateside right now in our price range.

We have very limited sailing experience and the temptation lately has been to go with what we can afford at the moment or just wait until fall and winter when hopefully more boats come out of charter and we may find one closer to our price range.

The other option is to join a sailboat club to get more experience, or buy a Mac 26m to save on marina fees and still get the experience.
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