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Old 27-05-2015, 11:51   #31
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New FP 38

The Helia 44 was announced just a few months before it was debut in a major boat show.
With a new FP 38 foot design a year before you can get one is showing your cards a little early, hence a competitive move.

Most amateurs sailors would not pull the trigger on an expensive new 38 foot design until well after hull #10,to see if all the bugs get worked out and it performs to the stated specs.

What should concern a potential buyer more than anything is that this is a Helia 44 x 24 foot beam design with 3 or 4 staterooms scaled down to a 38 foot x 21 beam boat.

Most amateurs sailors are going to know that 3 or 4 staterooms (6 to 8 people) with all their stuff and food is a lot of sheet to put in such a small package. This design may do well with in reviews with a reporter and a captain aboard, but those numbers will drop like a rock with 6 to 8 people and all their stuff and food aboard.

The hulls will have to be much wider and deeper to support the extra weight and we all know that means a slow boat. This has all the makings and appeal of a charter boat. Pack-um in tight for a weeks cruise around islands 3 miles apart.

The Helia 44 was designed to go around the world with early models even having 2 x 120 gal. fuel tanks.
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Old 27-05-2015, 12:04   #32
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Re: New FP 40

3-4 staterooms fit in most small cats. The Helia was presold to private customers 6 months before it's release date, even without the sketch plans. Early Helias has 2 tanks but were changed to one to comply with the tonnage rating. There's not much going on that's abnormal about a new design release here. I don't believe it will be slow looking at the figures but I guess we will wait n see ..
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Old 27-05-2015, 12:44   #33
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New FP 38

3 to 4 staterooms with 3 and 4 heads in a 38 footer has never been common.
Maybe 3 staterooms, but rarely 4 staterooms and surely not with a head for each stateroom on a 38 footer.

With the average male weighing 196 lbs and average female weighing 156 lbs, that will put 1056 lbs to 1408 lbs + another conservative 500 lbs for stuff and food and we get into the sailing charter brick category in this boat length.
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Old 27-05-2015, 12:51   #34
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Re: New FP 40

I don't see any difference to a Lagoon 380. 4 berth, 4 head except the FP is a bit bigger. L380s are pretty common with around 1000 launched over the past 15 yrs. FP have had similar models in that size range and so have leopard with 4 cabin/4head configurations. Not my idea of a perfect rtw cat for a couple, but the 3 cabin version would be fine
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Old 27-05-2015, 12:55   #35
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Re: New FP 40

Whats the competition? The Lagoon 39 is certainly no speed daemon. Waterline 37.10 and 11.6 tons with wide hulls call for more than just 70square meter of sail area.

I guess the new FP 40 has no problems to beat these figures but will it be enough to sail well?

The design shows wide hulls and a very long bridgedeck area, the dinghy no longer hangs between the hulls but behind the boat. If you switch between layout of the Mahe and the new FP40 you see the difference. Many new cats are no longer made to sail but to entertain folks in the caribbean.

it's sad they had too few orders for the Mahe to keep the model alive. But maybe the small cat market is just too small for two volume builders. We will see what will happen to the Lagoon 380.
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Old 27-05-2015, 13:01   #36
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Re: New FP 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
I don't see any difference to a Lagoon 380. 4 berth, 4 head except the FP is a bit bigger. L380s are pretty common with around 1000 launched over the past 15 yrs. FP have had similar models in that size range and so have leopard with 4 cabin/4head configurations. Not my idea of a perfect rtw cat for a couple, but the 3 cabin version would be fine
I think there has never been a 380 with 4 heads.

The 410 was the smallest Lagoon with 4 heads but these heads were small. The 2 head version was generous
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Old 27-05-2015, 13:10   #37
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Re: New FP 40

Price seems to be bit high compared to Lagoon.

You can get the 400 S2 for little bit over 300000 and this would be close to 100000 more with similar equipment.


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Old 27-05-2015, 13:14   #38
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New FP 38

I agree. The Mahe 36 has always been a fast design.
3 staterooms 1 head was the most FP attempted to pack in and that allowed for a 3’ 6” draft and faster narrower hulls. Sad to see it go at 185 hulls built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
Whats the competition? The Lagoon 39 is certainly no speed daemon. Waterline 37.10 and 11.6 tons with wide hulls call for more than just 70square meter of sail area.

I guess the new FP 40 has no problems to beat these figures but will it be enough to sail well?

The design shows wide hulls and a very long bridgedeck area, the dinghy no longer hangs between the hulls but behind the boat. If you switch between layout of the Mahe and the new FP40 you see the difference. Many new cats are no longer made to sail but to entertain folks in the caribbean.

it's sad they had too few orders for the Mahe to keep the model alive. But maybe the small cat market is just too small for two volume builders. We will see what will happen to the Lagoon 380.
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Old 27-05-2015, 14:27   #39
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Re: New FP 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxxer View Post
Price seems to be bit high compared to Lagoon.

You can get the 400 S2 for little bit over 300000 and this would be close to 100000 more with similar equipment.


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Don't forget thats USD pricing. I guess in Euro price lists she will be more like the Lagoon 39.
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Old 27-05-2015, 15:31   #40
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Re: New FP 40

Maestro version with 2 heads will be interesting !
Lets wait and see then !
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Old 27-05-2015, 15:36   #41
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New FP 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
The design shows wide hulls and a very long bridgedeck area, the dinghy no longer hangs between the hulls but behind the boat. If you switch between layout of the Mahe and the new FP40 you see the difference. Many new cats are no longer made to sail but to entertain folks in the caribbean.
You are correct. This follows the Helia 44 dinghy hanging beyond the stern design also.
The problem lies in that the Helia 44 has a bit of a stern drag when motoring at 6 knots. This makes the dinghy engine drag in the water sometimes and tug hard on the dingy.

A typical Helia 44 with a 3 or 4 staterooms and 3 and 4 heads needs a minimum of a 12’ foot dinghy with a 15 hp engine running around 300 lbs

Now take that same Helia 44 dinghy over hang problem and use it on a new FP 38 footer and you have a real tail dragger. Again, with 3 or 4 staterooms and 3 and 4 heads you will need a minimum of a 12’ foot dinghy with a 15 hp engine running around 300 lbs.

Short heavy 38 foot boat with a heavy dingy hanging out well past the hulls is a very slow tail dragger.


The 3.9’ draft will turn to 4.9’ draft when motoring at 6 knots. May have to do the Bahamas at 4 knots
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Old 28-05-2015, 00:05   #42
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Re: New FP 40

They could just counter the stern drag issue by making the hulls wider. Won't make her faster but gives carrying capacity.
At least the 8.9ton displacement looks better than the Lagoon 39. On paper that is of course.
2.7 tons lighter gives room for a decent dinghy and some guests
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Old 28-05-2015, 01:22   #43
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Re: New FP 40

more weight....
So surely less velocity than Lipari and perhaps mahe...
unless they add some more square meters on the sails ...
any data about the sails's surface ???
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Old 28-05-2015, 05:35   #44
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New FP 38

Quote:
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more weight....
So surely less velocity than Lipari and perhaps mahe...
unless they add some more square meters on the sails ...
any data about the sails's surface ???
Genoa area: 37 m
Main sail area: 58 m
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Old 28-05-2015, 06:28   #45
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Re: New FP 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by NETNOB View Post
Genoa area: 37 m
Main sail area: 58 m
95 sqm and 8.9 tons sounds OK to me!

At least way better than 70sqm and 11.6 tons (Lagoon 39). Not intending to bash Lagoons (I like most of them) but the 39 just doesn't cut.
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