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Old 02-02-2016, 13:29   #46
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Re: New extreme roach flat top main?

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Originally Posted by AD28 View Post
That statement is incorrect. Flat tops are as old as gaff rigs, which effectively a flat-topped main is, just doesn't have the controls as a 'true' gaff-rigger (peak and throat halyards)
How about the square rigged Viking boats? They had flat tops too...
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Old 02-02-2016, 16:29   #47
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Re: New extreme roach flat top main?

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Originally Posted by geoff326 View Post
[. Another big difference is sail shape. A well designed flat top has a much better sail shape part due to the number of battens while a gaff rig looks baggy in comparison. A gaff rig also has a lot more weight aloft than a flat top

No way to sugar coat it a gaff rig is much different than a square top.

[/QUOTE]The other point I forgot to mention was a lot of effort in windsurfing sails has gone into batten design - in particular that it is tapered correctly.
Although a gaff rig may look similar, can it actually twist off?[/QUOTE]


There are gaff rigs out there which are very aerodynamic & efficent. Having both great sail shape, & not a lot in terms of rigging, which generates turbulence.
For example PT Dinghy
And if one bothers to search (current designs, & or historic ones), you'll find more which are similar. The catch being, that often, like so many other high performance ideas & designs, they were often killed off by rating rules, yacht clubs, & luddites.

Also, gaffer's needn't have heavy or high windage equipment at their top ends. It's easy enough to fabricate a whole variety of gaff component designs, using modern composites. Or even aluminum & titanium.

The bottom line on such, is what you're trying to achieve, & how much you're willing to spend + take the time to test. For such equipment isn't commonly found in most rigging catalogs, simply because Bermucan rigs have pretty much ruled sailing for the last century+
So there's not a great demand for such gear, ergo, little gets spend on it's R&D by mainstream companies.

As to the question about whether or not gaffs can twist off. Yes, most definetly they can (at times too much). And many have "Vang" lines, which run from the upper, aft end of the gaff, down to the deck, so that the amount of twist can be controlled.

BTW: There's nothing which says that a gaff rig can't have a full battens. I'm uncertain as to where that thought's coming from.

Also, windsurfing isn't the only place where continual work on batten design has been taking place. For example, the IACC boats were experimenting with battens with tapering thickness nomex cores, with tapering thickness, carbon fiber skins on both sides, 25yrs ago. As welll as plenty of other materials & designs, going back a LOT further than that.

Do some reading on; The Little America's Cup, A-Class Catamarans, C-Class Catamarans, etc. The guys who created those boats, through their creativity, & desire for lightness & speed, are the ones responsible for a lot of what is "cutting edge", now. Only they were designing & building the stuff in their shops & garages, 30-40yrs or more, ago.

Ditto on a lot of the small boat, one design fleets. The tech generated by the sailors who work on & build them, is where much of the mainstream go fast gear comes from (for big boats).
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Old 02-02-2016, 18:35   #48
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Re: New extreme roach flat top main?

As to the question about whether or not gaffs can twist off. Yes, most definetly they can (at times too much). And many have "Vang" lines, which run from the upper, aft end of the gaff, down to the deck, so that the amount of twist can be controlled.

BTW: There's nothing which says that a gaff rig can't have a full battens. I'm uncertain as to where that thought's coming from.

Also, windsurfing isn't the only place where continual work on batten design has been taking place. For example, the IACC boats were experimenting with battens with tapering thickness nomex cores, with tapering thickness, carbon fiber skins on both sides, 25yrs ago. As welll as plenty of other materials & designs, going back a LOT further than that.

Do some reading on; The Little America's Cup, A-Class Catamarans, C-Class Catamarans, etc. The guys who created those boats, through their creativity, & desire for lightness & speed, are the ones responsible for a lot of what is "cutting edge", now. Only they were designing & building the stuff in their shops & garages, 30-40yrs or more, ago.

Ditto on a lot of the small boat, one design fleets. The tech generated by the sailors who work on & build them, is where much of the mainstream go fast gear comes from (for big boats).[/QUOTE]


The point I was trying to make was since reefing is so critical in cruising catamarans because of the risk of capsize I was suggesting that perhaps a mast designed specifically for flat top sails may help to negate the need for reefing so early. Based on my experience with windsurfing I was suggesting mast designers cast their eyes in this direction because it has been so beneficial to the sport.
As to who invented the flat top sail, I really can't be bothered arguing about it.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:07   #49
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Re: New extreme roach flat top main?

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
You can probably use the extra sail area. Sounds to me like you are extremely undercanvassed if you don't take in a reef until 28-30 kn.
I have 130m2 of upwind sail for 13-14T medium-loaded 48ft cat. Just stock strong dacron factory sails by Incidences

And bear in mind 28-30kn is AWS. The boat usually doing 8-11kn (depending on the course) so TWS shall be what, 22-23kn? Also, depends on the waves, can keep full until AWS 30 on flat flat only, reef earlier when beating.

She needs a larger main sail for better pointing when beating through short waves. Also, under 10 kn wind she is not doing well, need to improve that.
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