New Bi-Rig Performance Cruiser

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by fastcat435

Alan . Although it is not necessary to install a compression beam in the center of the trampoline it will make your trampoline very wide and thus springy, we could also have done without but having such a large trampoline is not a great asset.

Good luck with your building process
You have got a very good builder.

Gideon

I once hurt myself when falling onto one of those beams, so I don't like them, and consider them dangerous. I prefer the springy tampoline, after all it's mostly to lounge on, there won't be a need for much foredeck work. By using a less springy tramp material we can still get a good compromise I think. Maybe one of Gideons Spectra nets...

Gideon, I'm happy you also think 2 Oceans Marine are good builders. Thanks for the good wishes.

regards

Alan

[fastcat435]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

I once hurt myself when falling onto one of those beams, so I don't like them, and consider them dangerous. I prefer the springy tampoline, after all it's mostly to lounge on, there won't be a need for much foredeck work. By using a less springy tramp material we can still get a good compromise I think. Maybe one of Gideons Spectra nets...

Gideon, I'm happy you also think 2 Oceans Marine are good builders. Thanks for the good wishes.

regards

Alan

I understand your vision regarding the compression beam. make facility,s so you can put lines under your trampoline 2 x from port to starboard side on each 1/3 th of the trampoline to get rid of the springy action.
Our Dyneema Trampoline will also helps since the stretch is only 1 to 2 % and no stretch at all after the initial setup and re tightening.We use plastic runners with stainless inserts that cannot break even after long UV exposure, the negative side is that they weight more.

Greetings

Gideon

[Nordic cat]

Hi Ian,

It seems that you are correct about the anchor setup being different on the Athenas than the Tobagos.

When in La Rochelle, check out the great cafe on the main square, it looks like a 1920's setup, really nice. There are some really nice small restaurants if you walk up into the town from the part of the harbour where it meets the road with traffick, there are 3-4 cafes down to the road, walk past these, turn left up into the small streets, about 300 meters up there are a bunch of small places around where the vegetable and fish market is during the daytime.

If staying near the centre of town, take the waterbus, it's much nicer and no hassle compared to having to cope with the traffic, parking, and a long walk, or a bus ride to the show.

At the show, check out the "wood village" some very nice stuff there sometimes.

Please take plenty of pictures of any boats that you think are interesting, or nice features.. If you can get some of the new Outremer inside design I would like to see it.

I hope you enjoy it as much as we did the 2 previous years.

Cheers

Alan

[ireaney]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

Hi Ian,

It seems that you are correct about the anchor setup being different on the Athenas than the Tobagos.

When in La Rochelle, check out the great cafe on the main square, it looks like a 1920's setup, really nice. There are some really nice small restaurants if you walk up into the town from the part of the harbour where it meets the road with traffick, there are 3-4 cafes down to the road, walk past these, turn left up into the small streets, about 300 meters up there are a bunch of small places around where the vegetable and fish market is during the daytime.

If staying near the centre of town, take the waterbus, it's much nicer and no hassle compared to having to cope with the traffic, parking, and a long walk, or a bus ride to the show.

At the show, check out the "wood village" some very nice stuff there sometimes.

Please take plenty of pictures of any boats that you think are interesting, or nice features.. If you can get some of the new Outremer inside design I would like to see it.

I hope you enjoy it as much as we did the 2 previous years.

Cheers

Alan

Hi Alan,
Thanks for the info on La Rochelle and I will certainly take some pics of the Outremer, yet I think they are only going to have the 55 there, none the less I will do what I can and report back on Thursday/Friday.
Cheers
Ian

[freetime]

Hi Alan,

Do you have any better drawing on the interior? The navigation table, saloon, sofa and table.

[Nordic cat]

Hi Joakim,

All i have at present are pretty much the same drawings, we will be working out te details as we go along.

Is there a specific area you would like to see more detailed, then let me know and I can post it in a higher resolultion.

Final choices on wood types and the finer details like fiddle sizes and shapes are not yet decided. This will be done in march next year. I prefer to do this using actual samples rather than looking at pictures and drawings. We will do a mock-up of the layout, in the boat , before finalising. I want to make sure that both the design and ergonomics are what I want.

Do you have any suggestions?

Regards

Alan

[freetime]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

Hi Joakim,

All i have at present are pretty much the same drawings, we will be working out te details as we go along.

Is there a specific area you would like to see more detailed, then let me know and I can post it in a higher resolultion.

Final choices on wood types and the finer details like fiddle sizes and shapes are not yet decided. This will be done in march next year. I prefer to do this using actual samples rather than looking at pictures and drawings. We will do a mock-up of the layout, in the boat , before finalising. I want to make sure that both the design and ergonomics are what I want.

Do you have any suggestions?

Regards

Alan

The inside steeringposition is on the starboardside and then a navigationtable on port side.
How much/wish instrument do you plan to have on each steeringpostion? and at the navigationtable?

Do you plan to have the radar on the targa behind the cockpit?

What kind of lift do you plan for a dingy?

[Nordic cat]

Hi,

Here are some very early sketches of both the saloon layout as well as the targa showing the radar as well as the hinged tube to lift the dinghy with.

Dinghy lift:

2 sets of blocks control the rotation of the tube, in the horisontal position, the dinghy will clear the aft platform. The dinghy is then lifted up using a different set of blocks. Once the dinghy is over the aft platform, the tube is pulled back in towards the targa, and lowered onto the at platform and secured.

Saloon layout:

There are 2 forward facing desks. Starboard is the navigation and helm station. Port is for power management and elelctrics as well as a normal desk. Inboard from both desks are 2 spaces for storing the batteries. These are mounted on small wheeled trolleys, so they can be pulled out for service. These spaces are of course vented. Trolleys are locked in.
In case of inversion, the batteries will remain well above the water. Master fuses are next to the batteries, so power should be preserved so power will remain available.

Above the trolleys there will be a room for tools etc, top opening. It always annoys me, that there is no good place for the most often used tools on boats, you need to go digging for the toolbox.

Chart stowage and filing storage/books etc is outboard of the 2 desks.

The galley layout has been changed compared to this sketch.

The space under the sofa is for emergency kit stowage, and can be acessed from the saloon, as well as from under the bridgedeck if the boat is inverted. I have designed a lock that opens using gravity - very simple, so I don't have to remember to lock the lid whenever I expect "visitors".

Regards

Alan

[freetime]

Thanks, i don´t think i have so much more to ask. The catamaran is a topdesign.

hmmm... last question. Where is the liferaft located?

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by freetime

The inside steeringposition is on the starboardside and then a navigationtable on port side.
How much/wish instrument do you plan to have on each steeringpostion? and at the navigationtable?

Do you plan to have the radar on the targa behind the cockpit?

What kind of lift do you plan for a dingy?

Instrumentation is not decided yet, for weight purposes I have gone with a full blown chart plotter at each station, a large one, so I can also see more than the chart and radar,

I have used Raymarine E120's for the weight calculation, but the 2 other alternatives are Furuno and a PC based system.

The new day view waterproof touchscreens are getting cheaper, and now wifi based also. These offer a good solution, that is also more flexible and lighter. When in port, they can be taken in for safekeeping.

I plan to use NMEA2000 throughout and a Maxsea software package.

The small footprint PC's and the availability of large solid state memory at more reasonable prices look more and more attractive. Low power consumption and weight, no moving parts, and totally sealed/water cooled to avoid corrosion is the way to go IMO.

Autopilot functions will be redundant, my favourite is NKE as used on the large French multihulls, they can also handle the compensation of mast rotation for the wind instruments.

There is new stuff coming out all the time, so I'm putting off the final decision as long as possible...

Steering sysems will be hydraulic with a "feedback" valve setup. Design of this is not yet finalised, as I need to do the complete schematic, to be able to get a full overview, and decide if the feedback system doesn't add too much complexity and weight.

Still lots of work to be done

Alan

[freetime]

Still lots of work to be done......

Yep, i think the job except all drawings is a fulltime job until the boat is ready to sail away....but then you have a Nordic Cat 49. Only you.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

Steering sysems will be hydraulic with a "feedback" valve setup.
Alan

The anti feedback valves in hydraulic steering pumps are one way valves which prevent the wheel from being backdriven by the rudder. If you want "feedback" you leave these valves out.

But If you're going to have multiple helm stations you will need to have the anti feedback valves in place, or the steering might not work when there is load on the rudders. Turning one helm to the right might result in another helm turning left, rather than the rudder moving.

So you'd need to lock off each helm when not in use, if you want to leave out the anti feedback valves. (You'd need to lock all the helms when using the autopliot)

[freetime]

Is hydraulic the only way to go...

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

The anti feedback valves in hydraulic steering pumps are one way valves which prevent the wheel from being backdriven by the rudder. If you want "feedback" you leave these valves out.

But If you're going to have multiple helm stations you will need to have the anti feedback valves in place, or the steering might not work when there is load on the rudders. Turning one helm to the right might result in another helm turning left, rather than the rudder moving.

So you'd need to lock off each helm when not in use, if you want to leave out the anti feedback valves. (You'd need to lock all the helms when using the autopliot)

Thanks 44C,

It is exactly this complexity I want to avoid. The anti-feedback valves can be done as NC(Normally Closed) solenoids, so they only consume power when hand steering. My idea is to have a pushbutton at each helm, that lets me take control at that station. By pushing the button at that helm, the other valves close...

But all this is more stuff to go wrong.

I have a tiebar across the back, so alignment is no problem.

Once the schematics are done, it will be much easier to make a decision.

Alan

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by freetime

Is hydraulic the only way to go...

No, but it is the easiest and offers the best reliability in a 3 helm set up IMO. Factoring in autopilot, power requirements etc.

Maybe a nice subject for a new thread


Alan