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Old 12-06-2016, 23:45   #46
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

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And wouldn't that be, as I wrote "a serious marine incident"?

I know of at least one local incident that involved all three investigations. Yes, it was a multiple fatality, and displacement of both vessels was calculated.
Absolutely. My point is simply that all deaths would be a serious marine incident, but not all serious marine incidents involve a death and hence not all serious marine incidents would involve the State Coroners Office.
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Old 13-06-2016, 01:51   #47
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

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Raising a waterline does not automatically mean that a boat is in excess of maximum displacement; it simply means that it is sitting lower in the water than it has previously.
Sorry but this is just laughable.

Given that boat builders aren't stupid, and antifoul boats to the design displacement waterline, (plus an allowance for wave action) why pray tell, would a boat sit lower in the water, if not due to it's displacement having increased?
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Old 13-06-2016, 01:57   #48
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

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And wouldn't that be, as I wrote "a serious marine incident"?

I know of at least one local incident that involved all three investigations. Yes, it was a multiple fatality, and displacement of both vessels was calculated.
Ah, so you know of ONE multiple fatality where the displacement of the vessels was calculated, therefore it's now a FACT that EVERY serious marine incident will involve all three authorities (even if there were no fatalities?) and the displacements of the vessels involved will be "looked at very closely"?

Just wondering, what if one (or more) of the vessels involved has sunk in deep water? Or has broken up?
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Old 13-06-2016, 05:38   #49
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

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I have no dog in fight except as a party interested in learning more. If the facts as you state above are true, you should have no issue with backing up your statements with links. After all, such proceedings generally provide a very public result. And such results are always published.
Here is a link to a report about the incident:

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

You'll notice the POB number of one of the vessels. The vessel wasn't overloaded so no charges were made in this regard. You can research the court records if you like. I can't be bothered. Perhaps you can take over the bickering as well?
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Old 13-06-2016, 08:43   #50
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

You are right Tuskie, authorities and insurance companies in Australia will look at loading. Very common to do this for 4wds and caravans that are loaded for long distance trips. The average 4wd wagon only has a payload of 600kgs so it's easy to overload.


Re the FP 47 I think it has too many odd shapes and lines and it won't age graceful.



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Old 13-06-2016, 10:53   #51
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

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Here is a link to a report about the incident:

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

You'll notice the POB number of one of the vessels. The vessel wasn't overloaded so no charges were made in this regard. You can research the court records if you like. I can't be bothered. Perhaps you can take over the bickering as well?
I have no interest in the bickering. I have an interest in learning from factual sources. Not from implied knowledge in a posting in a forum. Since you neglected to back up any of your statements, I will take them for what they are, unsubstantiated gossip.

And a good day to you as well.
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Old 13-06-2016, 13:41   #52
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

last time I checked vessels out of class have no plimsoll marks. Without this there is no real way to determine overloading without a draft survey (which requires hydrostatic tables and calibrated draft marks) hence all this is moot. And before you say it, the antifoul is not a loadline.
I also agree with the earlier sentiment that theres way too much **** on most cats these days
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Old 13-06-2016, 15:28   #53
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

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You are right Tuskie, authorities and insurance companies in Australia will look at loading. Very common to do this for 4wds and caravans that are loaded for long distance trips. The average 4wd wagon only has a payload of 600kgs so it's easy to overload.


Re the FP 47 I think it has too many odd shapes and lines and it won't age graceful.



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We are talking about boats. Cars and caravans have GVM labels fitted by the manufacturers. Boats don't.

And here's a funny thing, boats CAN have capacity labels, which the builder - in my case me - can fill out and apply.

And there is a kind of formulaic guide (and only a GUIDE) to capacity, based on length x beam, which does not account for the fact that multihull waterplane areas are nowhere near as big as length x beam would suggest.

This results in amazing legal capacities for cat's. ie a Seawind 1000 that used to be used as a whale watching boat in Hervey bay had a rated capacity of something OVER 30 passengers plus two crew!

Anyway, the displacement figure given for a boat is simply the displacement at DWL. Add more weight and the boat will float lower than DWL. And that's about it.
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Old 13-06-2016, 15:46   #54
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

Not to mention that reputable competent designers will be able to tell you the sinkage rate of their boat ( either Kg/cm or Pounds/inch sinkage), with DWL as the base reference.

But be prepared to be surprised (as I was) at how many production company's don't seem to be able to come up with that info about their boat(s).

This would be a very helpful stat about any particular design when considering it's ability to carry load and still maintain sailing performance, particularly in light winds.
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Old 13-06-2016, 15:57   #55
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

Yes, although there may be a reason for this. Immersion rates aren't constant. Because the deeper the boat floats the bigger it's waterplane area is (usually). They should be able to give a number for DWL though.
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Old 13-06-2016, 16:01   #56
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

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Do you have 600 litres of diesel, 700 litres of water, a 3000w inverter or 700AH of batteries in your house? Probably not, but that would add up to approximately 2 tonne.
Just re-read this. How heavy is your freaking inverter?
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Old 13-06-2016, 16:09   #57
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Re: New Fountaine-Pajot 47

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This is my point; if looking to cruise on a catamaran, look for Maximum displacement not some useless theoretical unladen figure.
You actually need to look at both. The difference between them is your payload.
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Old 13-06-2016, 16:50   #58
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

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Yes, although there may be a reason for this. Immersion rates aren't constant. Because the deeper the boat floats the bigger it's waterplane area is (usually). They should be able to give a number for DWL though.
Quite true, I meant at DWL. And yes they SHOULD be able to supply this data, but try asking.
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Old 13-06-2016, 18:39   #59
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

Some good info on weight in this thread. I posted a thread on cruising weights a while back and didn't get anywhere near as much information so, thank you.
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Old 15-06-2016, 16:16   #60
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Re: NEW 47? ok, nice, but what's the diff' ??

Soooooo how about the new 47, that's what this post is about, 13.8t and the sail area doesn't propose as good as the Helia, is this correct?
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