Nautitech Open 40

[chris in SG]

Again, speaking as a Nautitech owner who enjoys the dual outboard helms, it's good to see a bit of support for the brand and the fact that they try to do something a little different. However, I also want Nautitech to survive and flourish (even after the inevitable rebranding under Bavaria) so it would bother me if they relied totally on the dual helm design - thereby excluding way more than 50% of the potential buyers market.

I don't like the flybridge 'bus-driving' solution and it seems to me that this isn't compatible with the 'open' design, blocking the main seating area which joins cockpit with saloon. Surely a better way forward is to develop an interior helm position, not full-on Gunboat style, but with 2nd helm and engine controls.

This would require a complete redesign of the interior 'nav station' which is necessary anyway (as Brainmaker said). Get rid of the "rigid tiny two seats" and replace with a forward facing nav station / 2nd helm.

[monte]

I dont think I'd be happy with anything other than bulkhead mounted helm. 40' is too small for bridgedeck helm and there goes the performance with a higher boom. I know there's lots of people that live there outboard helms, but are there any that would really prefer it if they had the option, especially after owning a boat with bulkhead helm?
Most L450 owners say they live the bridgedeck helm, but I did meet one owner that said, wtf were they thinking, we hate it!
Downsides for me for an internal helm would be being too far from and not being able to see sails, more motion from waves (I'd probably be sea sicker ) not feeling the breeze and no all round views for keeping watch, plus the loss of saloon space.

[Barra]

Yesterday we did a beam to forereach blast of 15 miles in 23 knot winds and decent cross seas.

Coincidentally to this thread i was thinking at one stage as i threaded between the cross wave action from the windward aft helm "i wouldnt have any other helm set up - this is a joy" (crew not so happy with things though especially after one decided facebook from the saloon was a good idea - maybe similar effect from a saloon based helm for some in such conditions)

If your actually helming like I was yesterday as opposed to keeping watch with the auto on then i just dont see how the twin helms can be beat.

[monte]

Good to hear Barra, enjoy the Med summer! Where are you off to this year?

[Barra]

We will be in the med this season again and hauling out in turkey this time for some refit work before the atlantic crossing next year (new sails).

Waiting for damn watermaker to be fixed (again) then off to samos, cyclades parts that we missed last year and then lycian coast of turkey.

[chris in SG]

Originally Posted by Barra

Yesterday we did a beam to forereach blast of 15 miles in 23 knot winds and decent cross seas.

Coincidentally to this thread i was thinking at one stage as i threaded between the cross wave action from the windward aft helm "i wouldnt have any other helm set up - this is a joy" (crew not so happy with things though especially after one decided facebook from the saloon was a good idea - maybe similar effect from a saloon based helm for some in such conditions)

If your actually helming like I was yesterday as opposed to keeping watch with the auto on then i just dont see how the twin helms can be beat.

[Sail power sail]

Originally Posted by indimini

Thanks for posting! We have an Open 40 charter scheduled in the BVI's this June as part of our cat evaluation. That video, on a dreary, cold winter's day was a nice way to end the week.

Indimini. Did you end up sailing the open 40 in the bvi on charter? What did you think?

[indimini]

Sail power sail, yes, we had a good trip on the Open 40. There were definitely pros and cons to the design. While these are personal opinion, here is my review:

Pros:

1. Good sailing performance (although the track on the self tacking jib was sometimes reluctant to move w/o some assistance)
2. Twin helm positions were great for sailing
3. Large cockpit was very comfortable and allowed everybody to be a part of the conversation while under sail.
4. Easy to single hand (from stbd helm) where the mainsheet and traveler were easily worked.
5. Great amount of refrigeration on board - two drawer refrigerator in saloon, beverage fridge in cockpit and 2 drawer freezer in starboard hull.
6. Good feel at the helm. The proximity of the wheels to the rudder placement meant there was little to no play in the linkage.
7. Good performance under power. I don't recall SOG #'s or RPM, but we would typically motor around 2500 rpm and made good progress w/ minimal noise.
8. Very smart electrical setup. The system was able to automatically switch between shore/generator/battery power without having to think about switching breakers off and on in some well defined order. It was nice to be able to ask my wife to turn something on or off w/o her having to ask for instructions every time. AC outlets accepted both 110 and 220 plugs. Hopefully this is a trend that all builders move toward.

Cons:

1. Terrible ventilation in all of the 4 cabins. Aft staterooms had only two port holes and no top hatch so there was practically no airflow thru the aft cabins while at anchor/moored. Front cabins not much better because the top hatch was aft of the bed so any air moving thru did not reach the person sleeping. (Perhaps we are odd in the fact that we prefer to not run generator/AC?)
2. Terrible ventilation in the galley. With the galley forward, when cooking the heat from the sun thru the windshield + the heat from the cooktop/stove would accumulate. Opening the top hatch helped some but with no forward hatch, the airflow was poor to say the least.
3. Galley equipment itself is tiny. While there is decent counter space, the sink is small, as is the 2 burner hob and the oven. I can't imagine cooking for 8 (we were a group of 4) in this galley on a regular basis.
4. All that refrigeration was hard on the batteries - we ended up motoring on day three just to get the batteries back up to a full charge. Running genset for several hours each evening helped some, but the charge was always less than 100% before we wanted quiet.
5. Raising the main was more work than we would have liked. 2-1 purchase on main halyard at the mast with some sticky batten cars was a pain. Also, there was no good place to store lines at the mast - a little tricky finding places to keep the lines from interfering with the jib track.
6. Main traveler did not move easily under load when the sail was up. (I've experienced this now on all cats we've chartered. Perhaps I am doing something wrong?)
7. The helm positions were not so great when approaching mooring balls. As you get up closer to the ball, the helmsman loses all sight of it. Not a big deal as long as you have good communication with people up front.
8. Our first night, on shore power, we did run the AC. The units were loud and the one in the saloon could not keep up with the heat generated thru the saloon windows. (This may be specific to our boat and not common to the design.)

Miscellaneous thoughts/notes:

1. we had two mechanical issues come up during the trip. First, the port water tank had an air leak which caused issues getting water to flow properly from that tank. The charter company even sent a technician on board who spent almost 1.5 hours trying to resolve the issue to no avail. (I think the charter manager first thought I was just being a "dump charter captain" when I raised the issue based on our conversations. ) Second, the raw water pump that brings water to the galley failed - the tech simply disconnected the power which was fine by us as we never used it. The charter company was more than fair in their handling of the issues w/ fresh water, waiving our entire diesel fuel bill and paying for our water refill.
2. Most concerning thing we noticed was while we were at the marina our first night. The aft port cleat was clearly under excessive stress as the boat moved in her slip. Closer examination one day while checking engine oil, belts, etc revealed the problem. The outer hull shell overlapped the inner shell. The aft cleat backing plate was only contacting the half of the glass, and the thru bolts were right at the seam edge. When the cleat was put under load, the backing plate had nothing to press against so the entire glass structure flexed. We could see the cracks in the glass every time the port side of the boat drifted from the pier.
3. There is an overly heavy reliance on caulk to fill gaps between major structural elements. I can't help but think that this will cause long-term owners a lot of headaches in the future.
4. The boat gets noticed! On two different occasions, we had people dinghy over to take a look at the boat. It is definitely a stand out in the sea of Leopard and FP cats that seem to make up the majority of charter boats in the BVIs.

Hope this review is helpful.

[Sail power sail]

Great review. Thanks for the information. I am looking at a lot of boats and it has been on my short list.

[Sail power sail]

Indimini -in your observation regarding the aft cleat and the flex, was that matter isolated to that one area our did you see it elsewhere?

What are examples of the overuse of caulk to fill gaps between major structural elements?

[indimini]

Sail Power Sail, we did not see other cleats being stressed like this - the front cleats seemed fine every time we picked up a mooring ball. I forgot to look at the starboard aft cleat to see if the port side was just something missed at the factory. I think it would be easy enough to address with some more glass behind the backing plate. My understanding is that the charter company was going to address it at some point.

The two main places I noticed the use of caulk were on joints between the deck and the hulls by the helm stations and the saloon top/cockpit cover structure where it joined the main deck. I'm not sure how other manufacturers handle such joint work, but the extent of the caulked seams just struck me as excessive. Knowing how those types of materials can age, it could be an issue eventually.

I should say that overall, the boat felt really solid - no squeaks or rattles were noted.

Oh, one other small pet peeve I had - the panels covering the hull bilges had no pull handle. We had to go in with a pair of butter knives to pry it open. That seemed like it would start to damage those boards in pretty quick order. I'm not sure why there weren't at least finger holes drilled into the boards for easy removal.

[downunder]

Sounds like typical issues with french built vessels.

Inadequate ventilation, solar, and cleats. Very few of the french production cats as standard have adequate cleats and solar.

Nothing has changed.

[Barra]

On your point re approaching mooring balls one trick to keep in mind is with the aft helms its a doddle to pick the ball up at the stern, take your mooring line through it then walk it forward to cleat it off. Much easier than off the bow and saves the "communication" problems we all like to watch!

[Barra]

Originally Posted by downunder

Sounds like typical issues with french built vessels.

Inadequate ventilation, solar, and cleats. Very few of the french production cats as standard have adequate cleats and solar.

Nothing has changed.

Does any production boat have adequate solar as standard?

catanas have great ventilation at anchor with the forward escape hatches acting as wind scoops. not so great in a marina berth though.

ill agree with you on the cleats

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Barra

catanas have great ventilation at anchor with the forward escape hatches acting as wind scoops. not so great in a marina berth though.

ill agree with you on the cleats

Every Catana I have seen had giant cleats. I think they sized them for their largest model and used them on all the smaller models.

Mark