Nautitech Open 40

[gelliott]

I'm just curious , if you're a Nautitech owner why does your post on FP refer to "we"? "we arrange simple financing" for example....
also you say because the corporate ownership has changed long term commitment is TBD.....I would say that being bought by one of Europe's largest yacht dealers would increase the safety of commitment not decrease it, especially when they don't have a catamaran range......why would they buy it otherwise?
I've chartered both, and whilst I'm no expert I think the quality and fit and finish on Nautitech is far better than FP, the last FP I chartered was one of the squeakiest boats I have been on and it wasn't an old boat....also when I looked at the Helia which I am considering for myself at the boat show there were several items that made me doubt quality, such as rust on brand new "stainless" steel fittings, the fact they designed a boat with davits that were unfit for purpose, and poor quality furniture...having said all that, I do love the design, but it is built to a price and more so than Nautitech imo
im also not a lover of twin helms, the new 46 has a single option, but to say they were abandoned by most builders 10 years ago is not true, those that are targeted at keen sailors like Catana and Outremer still pursue this design as its the best way to get sailing feel
so which Nautitech do you have?

[chris in SG]

[QUOTE=gelliott;1846512]I'm just curious , if you're a Nautitech owner why does your post on FP refer to "we"? "we arrange simple financing" for example....


Umm, are you asking me? I'm not the one who did the 'comparitive advertising'. That was someone else. I'm a Nautitech owner (old N40) and I'm very happy but I would not make comparisons because I'm not familiar enough with other yards or designs. I just know what I like..

[monte]

While I might agree with some of the comments above comparing the FP40 to the N40, unfortunately the obvious bias of the post discredits any otherwise useful comparisons between the two. I would agree the N40 would have less space and storage and for me the layout of the FP40 would be more suitable for my personal needs as a permanent live aboard cruiser. But the N40 is obviously aimed at those that prefer performance over creature comforts and if the FP40 can even reach half the speeds shown in the OP I would be very,very surprised.

[Sid at SailAway]

Alright, right up front, I sell the Open 40. With that out of the way, I would like to address the storage issue that keeps coming up. The first Open 40 brought into the states hung around the Abacos and then up to the Miami Boat Show. From the show she headed to Annapolis. During this four month period four persons lived aboard full time. We had all the shakedown discussions and the only thing that came up about storage was that there was plenty available. I've been on the boat numerous times, it's docked 100 yards away, and being a full time liveaboard myself, (a Lagoon 410), my wife and I are amazed at the storage so I'm not sure where this "lack of storage" comes from.

I could address some other items brought up, but then I would probably really seem biased and rightly so....Hope this helps someone...

Sid

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by brainmaker

Some responses: Barnakiel - why no boards - the designer wrote an interesting and convincing article on that, let me summarize it here. To have boards - would mean an extra 400 kgs of weight; would add danger of tripping over; would add noise inside and design problems inside; you need to operate them; plus first and foremost they don't improve performance much, or even pointing. The N55 Marc Lombard design (his first, before the N Open 40) outperformed others...

Amazing. How did he figure boards would add 400kg? You don't make them out of lead. There's no reason a daggerboard should weigh any more than 40Kg. They should be lighter. Cases MAYBE 50kg each.

There's no added danger of tripping over. Put them at the outer sheer and they're no more in the way than the shrouds.

Noise issues are easily fixed.

They don't necessarily improve pointing angles, but make a big difference to leeway.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by monte

I wonder what difference to load carrying capacity keels v boards makes. Surely the added displacement of keels would add directly to load capacity, being that they displace around 300kg of water at 1m depth....maybe not...

Yes, the keels displace water, but the cost in terms of drag is much higher than having the boat simply float a fraction of a millimetre deeper.

This is the general misconception - that daggerboards are only of benefit upwind. It's wrong. RAISING them makes you faster off the wind. And safer in rough weather.

As well as the benefits of reduced draught, etc etc.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by smj

On a daggerboard boat the rudders are vulnerable to damage as they have a deeper draft than the hull. On a cat with mini keels, the keels protect the rudders.

We have kick-up rudders too. We can float in <500mm of water. Try that in a minikeel boat. Because of our draught, our odds of actually hitting something in the first place are much smaller.

So in reality we are far LESS vulnerable to damage.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

when conditions are strong sea moves and daggerboards help little.

I would be anxious sailing in strong wind/vawes windward with draggerboards deep down. If you pull them up, then you better up with fixed. Manufacturers request to pull up daggerboards in strong conditions for a reason, so, in strong condition daggerboards not advantage. Even liability if windward track required.

regarding L400... Was in 3-4 feet chop 40 deg windwards 7-8 kn in 25 kn wind No squeaking, leeward shroud not loose whenever I looked. This i was impressed with and gives me quite a bit of confidence in boat.

Still getting to know the boat. I find it slow but other boats monos or cats no better

I did manage to tweak sail to get it real nice but this are fine touches I am learning. It is not boat slow/fast, there is also skipper, that makes is faster/slower.

There are other options besides board fully up or down. In stronger wind we use less board. We only use full daggerboard in very light wind, where low boatspeed would create huge leeway without the boards. As wind and boatspeed increases we'll raise the board somewhat.

I'd suggest before commenting people really ought to have tried sailing a minikeel and a daggerboard boat first.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I'd suggest before commenting people really ought to have tried sailing a minikeel and a daggerboard boat first.

QFT. I sell both and both have their place, but to suggest that the minikeel boat is a better sailing boat at any time, than a dagger board boat shows a distinct lack of experience. A boat with boards will be quicker up wind, quicker down wind and less likely to "trip".

Of course if you have a fat pig, it doesn't matter if you paint lipstick on it it is still a fat pig, in other words if you have a heavy big hull beamed boat, then boards are not going to do much, BUT if your boat is reasonably light and slim then they will definitely help.

[smj]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

We have kick-up rudders too. We can float in <500mm of water. Try that in a minikeel boat. Because of our draught, our odds of actually hitting something in the first place are much smaller.

So in reality we are far LESS vulnerable to damage.

You are correct, but your boat is definitely not the norm.


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[downunder]

Originally Posted by smj

You are correct, but your boat is definitely not the norm.


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I don't believe his current boat has anything at all to do with his comments.

[brainmaker]

Reacting to the FP40 salesman with the rather biased comments ... I rented many FP's for a month each time, in the European winter, to sail around the Carribean. Since then I know FP stands for Flimsy Polyester

On the FP40/N Open 40 - I think all the Open 40 needs is a redesign. It needs a flybridge instead of the silly double wheels at the back with no space and no relaxed view, forcing you to stand up and walk and push past people all the time. Second, whether FP40 or N Open 40 - both are biased towards the "warmer water" chartermarket. It would not be hard to give the N Open 40 some sliding doors at the back to make it full enclosed yet easy to open if the weather is warm, instead of the cloth tent feel zipper doors. Unless there is ample space as with 45 footers, I don't see the point of having two seating areas at all - I'd rather have one bigger area to sit comfortably with everyone. Those rigid tiny two seats across each other in the N Open 40 are really not appealing.. Hull accommodation is ok but the saloon area inside and outside are not clever. Something with an L or a U shape, allowing a couple of people to lie back comfortably to watch a movie or read a book.

Yes, it's possible to upgrade to a 45/46 footer .. but that brings a lot of mooring headache and isn't really necessary and overcomplicates things again.

But .... the N Open 40 sails fast and comfortable in strong winds .. but designers should realize people always spend more time being on the boat than sailing the boat. Hope the Bavaria/Nautitech design chaps read this .... feel free to message me gents..

[smj]

Originally Posted by brainmaker

Reacting to the FP40 salesman with the rather biased comments ... I rented many FP's for a month each time, in the European winter, to sail around the Carribean. Since then I know FP stands for Flimsy Polyester



On the FP40/N Open 40 - I think all the Open 40 needs is a redesign. It needs a flybridge instead of the silly double wheels at the back with no space and no relaxed view, forcing you to stand up and walk and push past people all the time. Second, whether FP40 or N Open 40 - both are biased towards the "warmer water" chartermarket. It would not be hard to give the N Open 40 some sliding doors at the back to make it full enclosed yet easy to open if the weather is warm, instead of the cloth tent feel zipper doors. Unless there is ample space as with 45 footers, I don't see the point of having two seating areas at all - I'd rather have one bigger area to sit comfortably with everyone. Those rigid tiny two seats across each other in the N Open 40 are really not appealing.. Hull accommodation is ok but the saloon area inside and outside are not clever. Something with an L or a U shape, allowing a couple of people to lie back comfortably to watch a movie or read a book.



Yes, it's possible to upgrade to a 45/46 footer .. but that brings a lot of mooring headache and isn't really necessary and overcomplicates things again.



But .... the N Open 40 sails fast and comfortable in strong winds .. but designers should realize people always spend more time being on the boat than sailing the boat. Hope the Bavaria/Nautitech design chaps read this .... feel free to message me gents..

I don't think there is no one perfect boat for everyone but the Open 40 in my opinion gives another choice for those that aren't into the popular big three charter boats.
The outboard dual helms aren't for everyone but neither is the flybridge helm. The flybridge helms will no doubt have more motion and I still can't understand how one can look past the headsail and keep a good watch to leeward, unless the headsail is really high cut.
The concept of the salon being open to the cockpit also isn't for everyone, but having owned one it has some great benefits. Being able to sit at the salon table with 360 degree visibility is one. You do lose the feeling of having a "living room", but some people enjoy the extra space for outdoor living.
The Open 40 wouldn't be my choice because of the cost, but it does offer a different choice for people that want to get away from what the majority of the market is offering.



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[colemj]

Originally Posted by smj

The flybridge helms will no doubt have more motion and I still can't understand how one can look past the headsail and keep a good watch to leeward

You climb down from the flybridge, run over to the leeward hull, take a look, run back, climb back up into the flybridge.

Sheesh, sailing a flybridge boat isn't for you lazy people…

Mark

[smj]

Originally Posted by colemj

You climb down from the flybridge, run over to the leeward hull, take a look, run back, climb back up into the flybridge.



Sheesh, sailing a flybridge boat isn't for you lazy people…



Mark

Guess I'm just getting old:-)


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