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Old 20-02-2014, 19:00   #46
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

vanWell,
I missed this earlier....

I think you numbers are a bit off here???
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanWell View Post
My lagoon 440 sails close hauled 30 degrees apparent doing 8 knots in 18 true (as long as the seas are not too big).
If these figures were accurate, doing 8 kts., you'd have 24.5 kts apparent @30 degrees of the bow...18 kts. true @42.8 degrees off the bow....and have plenty of VMG thru 85 degrees....and be able to tack thru 75 - 80 degrees???
(I'm not sure even a Gun Boat 62 could do that, maybe close though!!)




So, while I believe you like the performance of your cat, the math just doesn't work here...
BTW, those who weren't physics/math whizzes, there are some easy on-line calculators that you all can use...
True and Apparent Wind Calculator
True Wind Speed And Direction Calculator
Report True Wind




Sorry to throw water on ya' buddy...but, I do wish you Fair Winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 20-02-2014, 19:05   #47
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Oops! Just checked out Mike and Rebecca's site for the first time in a couple of years and it appears that they have purchased a bigger cat and are now running charters out of the BVI's! Well anyway, at least they started out with a PDQ 32 (and there is still a picture of it on the upper right corner of their site).

Brad

I believe the owners of Zero To Cruising still own their PDQ 32 and are paid crew on the Leopard doing charters.
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Old 20-02-2014, 19:23   #48
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I believe the owners of Zero To Cruising still own their PDQ 32 and are paid crew on the Leopard doing charters.
That is correct. They are running One Love, while their beloved PDQ is on the hard in storage. They are awesome people, and killing it on the charter front.
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Old 20-02-2014, 19:57   #49
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

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Originally Posted by scarlet View Post
Used!! That's why we are going to the shows... checking out this years models which will be the ones we will buy 5-7 years down the line.... I just can't see losing $200,000-$300,000 in depreciation...
Okay Scarlet, good for you. That means you have five years to do a lot of reading and get some practice sailing and figure out if you can do this and like it same time.

Five years is a long time. In that amount of time you will be able to learn enough to be as confused as I am.
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Old 20-02-2014, 20:07   #50
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

Thank your husband for his service and your support of him.

kind regards,
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Old 20-02-2014, 20:09   #51
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

Scarlet, listen to this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
Scarlet,
(I started this reply yesterday, but got sidetracked....hopefully you find some of this helpful...)

I'm glad you enjoyed the boat show...they can be fun!!

I hope you don't mind some constructive (but unsolicited) comments....
--- Please do yourselves the favor of not coming to conclusions yet!!
I realize this is probably just a turn-of-phrase, but I also wanted to assure you that having an open mind and NOT making snap judgments/conclusions after one boat show, will give you a much better chance of choosing the boat that is right for you and your application...







And, this just might be the first conclusion to come to, too soon...
Please understand that while we ALL wish we had more money, the facts are that NOBODY needs every feature that is touted as necessary in a boat, nor every accessory / gizmo / app / etc. that everyone at a boat show wants to sell ya'!!!
It can be easy to say, but hard for some to actually believe....especially since every magazine and many internet sites also tout the latest and greatest...and the implication is that if you ignore all this "expert" advice, you are surely doomed to die a slow painful death at sea!!

The truth is, you'll spend what you have / what you can afford.....so do NOT let all the fancy features and nifty systems pull you down the dreaded path of thinking you need "a LOT more money"!!


My first cruise was as a kid with my parents, in the mid 1960's....and I've sailed and cruised (on/off) ever since, including multiple Atlantic crossings, etc., and I've made my living (between sailing/cruising) in electronics the past 30 years...
So, about 10 years ago, I bought and equipped my current boat according to my desires and application of long-range ocean cruising (see bottom of posting for link to pictures, including some of my most recent Atlantic crossings), but understand that all of this isn't a necessity!!!

My parents started cruising (part-time at first) in the 1940's....and by the time they sold their last boat in the mid 1990's, they had cruised/voyaged from the Great Lakes, throughout Florida and explored every nook 'n cranny in the Bahamas and the entire Caribbean (except for Cuba and Jamaica), sailed across the Atlantic multiple times, cruised England and Scotland, the Orkneys and Heberdies, as well as France, Spain and Portugal....and a few seasons cruising the Med (prior to the end of the Cold War), including the of-the-beaten path locales, such as Yugoslavia, Turkey, N. Africa, etc. as well as the common locales like Greek islands, Spain, France, Italy, etc...
I can remember (when a teenager) being the ONLY Americans cruising the coasts of Turkey....where I experienced some of the most wonderful people in the world....
{actually of all the places I've cruised over my life, my top cultures are Bahamas, Portugal (particularly the Azores), Spain (particularly the "coasta del sol" and the Canaries), Turkey, and ???? (the next 5 are all tied)...but I digress!!!}

I could ramble on, but my point is this:
In all their voyaging/cruising, in all those years/miles, they never had GPS, Chartplotter, nor computer.....no internet, no sat phone, etc....
NONE of that was even available / invented yet....
No watermaker, etc....we just took on good water where we could and we had NO issues...
(yeah, if you had the space/room for the 6' radome, and the electrical power to run it, if you wanted a sat phone, you could've spent > $10,000, in 1970's dollars, on an INMARSAT A terminal....and in their last decade or so, GPS satellites were launched and some GPS receivers were becoming affordable....but other than that, NONE of that was available...)

And, guess what we all survived just fine!!!

(Even some of the inexpensive stuff that some will tell 'ya is a necessity, usually aren't....as an example, and although I have 'em on-board now, I've sailed the Bahamas for decades without "Explorer's Charts", etc.)

The bottom line here:
If you really get down to it, what you need is this:
a) a boat and crew that keeps the water on the outside and mast/rigging pointing up...
b) a hi-quality, and deviated, steering compass...
c) a handful of some paper charts, and a wristwatch...
d) a decent supply of fresh water and/or a way to catch rain water...
e) enough money and/or an income, to "live" on

If you have the money / income for the above, you don't need much more....
Almost everything else is a "want" not a "need"....

If you look at my current boat and see where I've cruised, you may think that I'm the "pot calling the kettle black", but please understand that I'm NOT...
I'm just trying to impress on you that a truly wonderful, rewarding, and safe life can be had out cruising/voyaging WITHOUT having a lot of money, nor buying everything that "everyone" says is necessary....
Some of the stuff is nice to have, but isn't necessary...
The more you sail/cruise, and speak to those that did this in the days before GPS, etc. the more you'll grasp this...






I'm a monohull sailor, and I openly disclose here that I think most cats are ugly....but that doesn't mean I can't be objective..Scarlet PLEASE forgive my bluntness and please do NOT take this the wrong way, but...
But, if the monohulls you went on (not sure which ones) had (in your experience) too much "motion in the ocean" right there at the boat show, at the dock...it leaves me wondering if sailing is actually something that you both would enjoy??
Maybe I'm reading too much into your brief statement above (and if so, my apologies and please ignore the following), but boats do move around a lot...even at anchor in a cove somewhere, you'll get some motion....and when at sea the ocean is not flat (at least not very often!).
I realize we all have our own personal preferences and we all experience things differently, and I know that monos and cats DO have different "motions", so I'm NOT being critical here, rather I'm just trying to impress on you the facts that all boats have motion, and until you get out and sail a few boats in your desired range (40' - 50'), both mono and cat, AND see how they lay at anchor, etc. you will not be able to make any hard and fast decisions on which boats have the motion you desire and which don't make the cut...
(also be aware that SOME newer designs tend to sail around at anchor as well...but that's a whole 'nother discussion, for another time...)







While I wish you well in Annapolis... In my opinion, you MIGHT be better served by not going to the boat show, or even spending some of the money budgeted for the October Boat Show on SAILING....
Get out on the water this summer, anywhere and anyway you can....take day sail trips, sign up for sailing lessons, befriend some single-hander at a local marina, etc....
I don't know where you are, what sailing there is nearby, nor what your current experiences are...but (in MY opinion) after the Miami show, spending more time and money going to Annapolis and not getting out sailing would be a waste!!!




Scarlet, sorry if I sound a bit "opinionated" (but I guess after 45 years on the water, sailing, and cruising on/off....ya' just get a bit "opinionated"

I understand that EVERYONE is different and EVERYONE has different desires/opinions, etc....
I just hope you find some of mine helpful.

Fair winds.

John
s/v Annie Laurie

More boat photos here...
http://www.c470.jerodisys.com/470pix/foto_bot.htm
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Old 20-02-2014, 20:30   #52
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

Yeah

And you reckon your parents had it toof; my grandparents went to sea in shoebox with a broom for a mast, a bedsheet for a main, and a pillowcase for a jib, and a only a store of beets to eat all across the Pacific, and they survived and were damned happy about it to.

Apologies to The Four Yorkshireman, Monty Python.
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Old 20-02-2014, 20:43   #53
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Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
vanWell, I missed this earlier.... I think you numbers are a bit off here??? If these figures were accurate, doing 8 kts., you'd have 24.5 kts apparent @30 degrees of the bow...18 kts. true @42.8 degrees off the bow....and have plenty of VMG thru 85 degrees....and be able to tack thru 75 - 80 degrees??? (I'm not sure even a Gun Boat 62 could do that, maybe close though!!) So, while I believe you like the performance of your cat, the math just doesn't work here... BTW, those who weren't physics/math whizzes, there are some easy on-line calculators that you all can use... True and Apparent Wind Calculator True Wind Speed And Direction Calculator Report True Wind Sorry to throw water on ya' buddy...but, I do wish you Fair Winds... John s/v Annie Laurie
L450 wind 18-20kts true, AWA 37, speed 8.5-9 kts, VMG 5-5.5kts, 2nd reef main, 2nd reef jib for comfort of the admiral, flat water.
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Old 20-02-2014, 21:07   #54
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
2. Always amazed how my knees hurt after a boat show. You don't realize how many steps your are taking when they only come 2-3 at a time.
My doctor and physical therapist BOTH said that the BEST thing i could do to help work out after I broke my leg skiing in 2009 (DON'T ski anymore, for those who do, I found 86.4% of my friends who said they did ended up breaking something. STOP right now) said:

The boat is the BEST therapy you can get. Great for my leg and muscles.

The damn doctors forgot about engine maintenance, but what the hell..
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Old 20-02-2014, 21:37   #55
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

The problem with boat shows is your perspective is all skewed. So much so, that nearly everyone who buys a boat at a show soon wants to sell for a huge discount after just a short time, sometimes just hours.

For example: motion. Sure, your house does not move. Your car moves oh so smoothly. Then stay ashore. Boats move. Its the ancient interface. Its fundamental to the experience of being on a boat. Multihulls move around A LOT at sea. A LOT! If you don't like it, you will just feel barfy until you sell your boat CHEAP.

For example: there is absolutely a very, very strong NEGATIVE correlation between the cost of the boat and your enjoyment owning the boat. If you think you need to spend more to enjoy, you will be yet another of the masses who very soon sell your new boat CHEAP.

Before you do something silly and very, very expensive: just go sailing. On anything. With anyone, anywhere. But go. For awhile: weeks at a very minimum, six months far better. Think you can't afford to go off sailing for six months just to get an attitude adjustment? Buying a boat WITHOUT that attitude adjustment will cost you more than you can imagine today, a shocking amount that will affect you in a very personal, deep, and unforgettable manner. Consider all the expensive new boats just sitting in marinas near you, across the country, around the world... And compare those thousands with the very few that actually sail, that get used, that look happily worn out...
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Old 20-02-2014, 21:43   #56
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

cwjohm,
I'm assuming you're just having a bit of fun..
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
And you reckon your parents had it toof;
But, FYI my Dad passed 5 years ago, but my Mom will be 93 in June!!
She's about 5' 1" and 110lbs....

And, here is a picture of her, from just a couple years ago (2011??) at the helm of my current boat when we were heading in/out from a daysail or weekend trip down the coast...





Oh, and BTW that same month at 90 years old, she also winched me up to the masthead (using my electric halyard winch), and in letting me down, she did a fine job slacking off the line and feeding the line smoothly, setting me gently down on the deck..


And, if you're interested I can tell ya' the time they got caught in a late season Full Gale (building to Storm) in the Bay of Biscay....where my Dad lost most of his ring finger (cut it clean off, putting in a deeper reef in the mainsail), and they didn't get into port for > 24 hours, etc. etc.....she steered/piloted (with some help from the autopilot, when administering first aide to my Dad), while my Dad laid in the cockpit....keeping each other company....
It's really a great story...

Or how about the time we got shot at by the Dominican Republic Navy (3" or 5" rounds, as warning shots, 100 yards off our bow!)....or were in the middle of a Marxist revolt (early stages of revolution) in Grenada....or my Dad diving with Bert Kilbride in the BVI in the 60's....
The list goes on and on....

So, poke fun at my family all you want...no worries...
(My Mom is tough enough to take it... )



Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 20-02-2014, 21:54   #57
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

Quote:
For example: there is absolutely a very, very strong NEGATIVE correlation between the cost of the boat and your enjoyment owning the boat. If you think you need to spend more t enjoy, you will be yet another of the masses who very soon sell your new boat CHEAP.
Aye, right you are. If we all sailed around in $10,000 boats we would all be happy, happy, happy. That's what these damned people need today - Attitude Adjustments. Too much money and too little sense if you ask me.

So don't be silly and look at boats - just go sailing - shoebox, rubber duckie, hollowed out log, surfboard. 6 months is best - live off the sea - Do not come back until your attitude is adjusted and then you will not make the mistakes made by those that know no better.

Another yorkshireman
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Old 20-02-2014, 22:05   #58
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

Maybe I'm not getting the humor here...
Although I don't think there is any, and you are being very rude and inconsiderate, as I don't see any smiley faces ( )....

With "u4ea32" saying that someone excited about sailing and looking to learn (Scarlet) should get an attitude adjustment....
And with "cwjohm" agreeing with him, and insulting my parents...
Cruiser's Forum is starting to seem a bit un-welcoming...

I know Scarlet can defend herself just fine....but I'm personally disgusted by the above rudeness...

Maybe my 93 yr old mom could teach you guys a little bit about manners???


Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 20-02-2014, 22:05   #59
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

Quote:
So, poke fun at my family all you want...no worries...
(My Mom is tough enough to take it... )

Not poking fun at your wonderful family. Poking fun at the attitude that we all have to live in past.

These innovations/gizmos - whatever you want to call them have resulted in a huge number of people now being happy to sail, whilst in your parents time they would not have been game to.

They do not cost much, and on a second hand boat they cost virtually nothing. We should encourage people to embrace them, not rubbish them just because our parents did not need them.
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Old 20-02-2014, 22:08   #60
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Re: My "post mortem" from the Miami Boat Show

Quote:
Maybe I'm not getting the humor here...
No you are not. Nor do you seem to understand the concept of SARCASM. If you did you would understand that I was totally disagreeing with u4ea32.
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