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Old 17-11-2006, 17:24   #106
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personally I prefer the look of darker colors, but here in the tropics white is preferable, as it is less heat absorbing.

I know of a beautiful black-hulled mono here in Thailand that looks fabulous but it hotter than blazes down below. Owner admits now that he made a mistake on the color choice.
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Old 17-11-2006, 18:59   #107
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Also with dark colours they suck up enugh heat to compramise the laminate.

Epoxy's can start to soften around 50 degrees c and can start showing print through of glass and joins in core or plank lines.

I have even seen on a black stripe signs of delamination in a production polyester boat, but I suspect it may have been bodgy work.

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Old 18-11-2006, 06:50   #108
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while dark is bad, so is brilliant white on the superstruture. it may be the best heat reflector, but it is very bad for the eyes, due to those reflections.
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Old 18-11-2006, 06:57   #109
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We have a Yellow 42 footer in our marina. Around the docks it's not so affectionately called "The Banana Boat".

Sometimes white is best.

Rick in Florida
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Old 18-11-2006, 13:06   #110
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Question

Sorry to jump in, but what does the color of some boat in some marina have to do with multilhull storm tactics?
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Old 18-11-2006, 13:09   #111
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thread drift .. it happens
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Old 18-11-2006, 14:26   #112
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It's Kai Nui's fault.....
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Old 18-11-2006, 16:56   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BambooSailor
Sorry to jump in, but what does the color of some boat in some marina have to do with multilhull storm tactics?

Yeah I guess it isn't really a "tactic" as such, but it stemmed from the idea of painting the boat in a highly visible colour to aid potential rescuers.
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Old 18-11-2006, 20:17   #114
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I'll take some of the heat on this one, too. My point was that you often hear of someone painting the bottom side of their multi bright orange to aid visibility, but they rarely consider the top side. If multis flip so rarely, and I believe that flips are rare, then chances are greater that you'll be upright when you need to be spotted for rescue. Give me the banana boat anyday - that's a sailor that's looking beyond esthetics.

Kevin
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Old 19-11-2006, 21:02   #115
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Just quickly back to storm tactics and parachute anchor. I read Richard Woods account several times, and I'm not bashing Richard (I had lunch with him a couple months before this happened), he's a great sailor, but it helps to sit back and see if there was anything that could have been improved upon.

In his case it would have been better if he had:
*A properly sized chute (12' minimum for storm conditions is recommended as less than that will tend to collapse in broaching seas, his was 10 ft, too small for storms and too small for his boat),

*used a modern sea anchor instead of a cargo style parachute (modern sea anchors such as paratech have panels which are designed to give way to allow the sea anchor itself to continue to work but releave the pressure in the most severe storms, all the older cargo style chutes are destroyed in any serious storm as his was),

*sufficient chafe protection.

I'm by no means an expert, but this is what the manufacturers recommend as they know that deploying a sea anchor in a storm is something that has to be done right. I would like to know though from those who've deployed sea anchors how you properly gauge adequate rode length? Do you just deploy 400 ft knowing that it would be more than enough and go below decks for hot coco?
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Old 16-12-2006, 01:50   #116
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no right way

Seems like this is a bit of a dead horse thread but has anyone read "Fastnet Force-Ten" by John Rousmaniere or the story of the 1998 Sydney to Hobart Race, "Fatal Storm" by Rob Mundle? These are both great heavy weather tales and more importantly they take an in depth look at heavy weather tactics. What was unique about these two survival situations was that the culmination of everyone's harrowing experience resulted in a pool of data. This data gave us how many ships entered the races, how many were knocked down, capsized, dismasted, and of those vessels which one's used which storm tactics: same storm, relatively same boat size, different outcomes.
To make a long story short all of the data lead to the conclusion that there is no real "right way" to ride out a storm. Generally speaking it is more effective to use active tactics (deploying a drogue, going to bare poles, or reducing canvas and trying to dodge breakers) than to use passive tactics (lying a hull, heaving to, or using a sea anchor). In the end the experience level of the crew was the determining factor which lead to either a boat's survival or demise.
I am curious about people's thoughts on this topic.
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:19   #117
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I thought I was 100% convinced on a multi-hull until I read Lin and Larry Padey's book called Storm Tactics. I know I will be out there sailing in a storm eventually and worry that a big wave crashing on the stern of the boat will break the big door wall windows on a boat like the Lagoon 420 or Fountaine Pajot 60. First...i recommend reading Storm Tactics and concur with author that the para-anchor is critical on any boat of any type size or shape. Second I want to know of people that have heaved-to in cats and what the angle to the wind. 50 degrees seems to be magic number for monohulls using a trisail. Are cat people using a trisail? The reason I am rethinking cat versus monohull is the trade off of the safety you get when heaved to in a monohull with a deep keel. The deep keel of the monohull breaks the wave front pattern far better then the shallow hulls of a cat. Karman effect. In fact the Pardey's imply the cat's Karman effect is so small it is better to lay a cat at 0 degrees to the window and depend on a 28ft diameter para-anchor. What worries me is that was for what I consider to be a small cat. If I get a bigger one like the Lagoon 420 or even a 60ft Fountaine Pajot I have no idea how big of a para-anchor should be used. Pardey's book outlines the futility of running before a major storm and that a-hull isn't a good choice either.
On to the big questions:
1. In a force 10-12 blow, is it possible to get a cat to heave-to and stop sailing?
2. How big of a para-anchor do you need on a big cat?
3. Is that big wide glass door on the back of a cat safe in a storm if the boat is properly hoved?

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Old 07-01-2007, 05:46   #118
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Absolute Wind, welcome to the forum and wash your mouth out with soap.

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Alby Mckraken at Para-Anchors Australia will be able to advise.

I used one of his on a delivery to New-Cal and was very impressed with the quility of build and how it performed.

Sea Surface Anchors. Para-Anchors Australia Pty. Ltd.

Have you heard of a wave coming into the back of a cat ??

Are Lin and larry multihull expert's ??

And unbusted 67, do a bit of research into parachute anchors and you might change your tune.

I'd reckon if the mono's in either of those book's had a parachute on board they would have used one and have been better off for it.

Less stress on the boat and a rested crew has got to be better than fatigued crew and stressed and broken boat.

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Old 07-01-2007, 05:49   #119
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No good reading a monohull sailor's book and expecting to get accurate advice on multihull tactics, they are different. The Pardey's are traditionalists and minimalists, - more power to them, and if that is the way you wish to go, then there is a wealth of advice available in their books.

However, that is not the only way ahead. The best source of data is the "Drag device data base"

A cat needs to be slowed down in a really bad storm. The series drogue is the best way to achieve that, provided that the stern is sufficiently robust to cope with the forces. The parachute can also work. but needs to have an appropriate bridle, and must also be big enough to reduce the movement through the water to almost zero to avoid damage to the rudders. Thus the forces involved with a parachute are several orders of magnitude larger than that experienced with the series drogue. IMHO you also need to reinforce the front windows if using a parachute, as a breaking wave will spillover the boat, whereas with the drogue, the weight at the far end of the drogue stalls at least half of the drogues until the boat is hit by the breaking wave, thus the boat is able to accelerate initially to reduce the shock of the breaking wave, and is then slowed down as more and more drogues come into use, and then the boat is plucked safely through the breaking wave.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:04   #120
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But of coarse if using a drogue is going to put you towards a lee shore the parachute is the go.

From anything I have read by the time people get around to deciding that they need to do something fatigue has started to set in. For my money i'll be using a parachute and ensuring i'll be rested for if the $hit really hit's.

When we used the parachute, and fair enough it was only blowing at around 50 for a few hours, but we did have 35 to 40 for about 5 hours, the waves were around 4 to 5 metres and we never had one break over the bow's.

Not saying that it doesnt happen though.

After beating into 20 to 25 for about 20 hours we were getting a bit stressed, and the boat wasn't her usual happy self so we put it out early and were amazed that it was like being on anchor in a rough anchorage.

We had hot meals, did some maintenance had a few rumbo's and watched the waves roll by And then continued on fully rested .


Did I mention that I like Parachute anchor's ?




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