Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-11-2006, 16:20   #91
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Hi Lodesman,I still would'nt have anything but a cored composite boat, but it would have to be done right and would have to be the right core and it would never be in polyester resin .

Some of the core samples and bilges of cats i've worked on in the past certaily seem to have chopper gun glass in them, but mainly as a consolidation layer between woven rovings and the core or gelcoat, but it could also be CSM, none of which has a place in the modern composite multi.

Some factories still have chopper in use, but I suspect mainly as a resin sprayer.

I'll see if I can track down some info on Simpson design for you. I know Boatcraft Pacific sell his plans, and I also know Roger got out of boat's unless it was for something he really wanted to do. He took up flying and instructing and now builds custom Banjo's beleive it or not.

Nice change of pace for him and well deserved.

Dave
__________________

__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2006, 17:48   #92
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
OK, i've had a look on google and this is all i've found on Roger Simpson Multihulls www.boatcraft.com.au/simpson.html

I also found some info on his cats and others in the 1994 storm off the top of NZ . www.bluesuit.co.nz

If you want more info. there is plenty more if you Google "RAMTHA CATAMARAN", the email addresses on some are just way to long for me to type in

Dave
__________________

__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2006, 19:23   #93
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No longer post here
Boat: Catalac Catamaran
Posts: 2,462
1994 Queens Birthday Storm -Pacific

I found this by taking Cat Man Do's advice and googled Ramtha Catamaran. It was in a mailing list at:

http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/p...il/001034.html


__________________________________________________ ________


Although this deals with sailing cats—not many had much sail up by the time it was over. It certainly deals with the ability of a group of at least three cats to survive a storm—but also has some lessons for monohulls! This relates to the Queens Birthday Day Storm in June 1994. Typically one sails from Auckland N.Z. North to Fiji After the first week of April and before the end of June. This should avoid the Souther Cyclone season and the severe winter Gales. In 1994 there were a series of mild lows which kept many mariners from leaving in April and May—none of these were severe—but folks were waiting for “Ideal weather”. However time crept up on them. The meteriological scenerio is well described in the web site of Steve Dashew at: http://www.setsail.com/products/pdfs/qbs.pdf

The story unfolds as noted in the archives of Lat 38, June 1999:

‘It’s unclear exactly how many boats were caught in the core of the June ’94 storm, but nine boats with a total of 24 crew issued maydays. One boat and her three crew were never seen again. Seven other boats with 17 crew were eventually rescued. One boat rescinded her mayday and made it to port under her own power. What should make the Queen’s Birthday Storm story so interesting to you, .... is that two of the nine boats that issued maydays were catamarans; one a homebuilt 39-footer, the other a Catalac 41.

In addition, there was a third catamaran, a 39-footer, on the periphery of the core. The following is a quick rundown of all nine boats, their crews, and what happened to each of them.” Also an analysis of the monohulls condensed: “

Five things stand out from the experience of the seven monohulls:

1) Despite all efforts, it was virtually impossible to keep the boats from ending up beam-to the seas, which resulted in five of the boats being repeatedly knocked down or rolled.

2) Despite trailing drogues, two of the boats pitch poled.

3) No matter if the seven monohulls pitch poled or rolled, all of them lost their masts.

4) As a result of the pitch poles, knockdowns, and rollovers, many of the crews suffered serious injuries.

5) Having a ship come alongside to effect a rescue was extremely difficult and dangerous foreveryone involved.

6) Perhaps the most amazing thing is how well the seven boats held up to the unthinkably horrible conditions; had it not been for scuttling or collisions with rescuing ships, six of them would have continued to float.

The age-old admonition to never leave a boat until it’sunderwater would seem as true as ever.

Now for the catamarans:

“Ramtha, a 38-foot Roger Simpson designed modern-style catamaran from Australia, with a husband and wife crew with five years of coastal cruising experience and some offshore experience: The crew had set a drogue several days before the storm to fix her steering, but had to cut it loose when they were unable to pull it back up. Ultimately, they found themselves in 70 knots of wind and 40 foot seas, conditions so bad that the 4,000-ton ship Monowai, coming to their rescue, rolled as much as 48º in each direction, injuring three of her crew. Despite four reefs, Ramtha’s main blew to shreds and her steering system became inoperable. With nothing but her twin engines available for maneuvering, being aboard her was like “going down a mountain in a wooden box” or being on a “roller coaster that never stopped.” The boat slid down waves forward, sideways, and backwards. Several times it seemed as though she might flip, but she never did. Ultimately, Monowai shot a line to Ramtha’s crew, but missed. While the line gun was being reloaded, Ramtha’s crew began to get strong second thoughts about leaving the boat, feeling he was doing fine on her own despite being crippled. Nonetheless, they attached their harnesses when the second line landed on their boat, and were dragged several hundred feet ÷ often underwater ÷ to and up the side of the ship. After abandoning the cat, the owners gave her up for lost. A week or so later, they were stunned to learn that the boat had been found ÷ upright and in surprisingly good shape! After settling a salvage claim with another yachtie, they eventually sailed her back to Oz where they began rebuilding the cruising kitty.

Heart Light, a 41-foot Catalac U.S.-based catamaran with a crew of four; a husband and wife couple with 16,000 ocean miles, and two crew with no offshore experience: Despite having 16,000 miles ocean experience, the captain and wife claimed to have not steered the boat except near the dock and to have never jibed between the States and New Zealand. Heart Light was a heavy, solid fiberglass, narrow catamaran. Nevertheless, she did reasonably well, surfing at between 6 and 13 knots while dragging a drogue. When the autopilot couldn’t handle it any longer, the skipper finally learned how to steer, working desperately to prevent waves from slewing the stern in front of the bow. Eventually, both engines went down and linesfouled both rudders. They tied off the helm to port and slid sideways down waves. Despite being “captapulted” through the air on many occasions and being knocked onto one hull several other times, she endured. When the rescue ship arrived, her captain noted that the boat “appeared seaworthy and was riding comfortably in the improved weather.” When the captain said he couldn’t tow the boat, Heart Light’s first mate, a New Age visionary, talked the ship’s captain into a weird agreement: they would only allow themselves to be rescued if he promised to ram Heart Light until she sank. The woman’s theory was that the sinking boat would be a lighthouse guiding the forces of good through seven layers of reality into our currently evil world. Something like that ÷ and yes, she wrote a book. The ship’s captain complied, and Heart Light sank after being rammed several times.

The third catamaran, a 40-footer, carried a deeply reefed main and furled jib in slightly lighter conditions outside of the core. She experienced no serious problems.

There are several interesting things about the two catamarans in the core area of the storm:

1) Neither of them pitchpoled;

2) Neither of them flipped÷ although the crews thought they came close;

3) Neither of them were dismasted;

4) Both of them apparently would have survived ÷ by surfing forwards, sideways, and backwards ÷ had they just been left alone.

Does this mean that multihulls are actually safer in very severe weather than monohulls? We ÷ who own both a monohull and a catamaran ÷ certainly wouldn’t leap to that conclusion. After all, there were several other monohulls in the core area of the storm that didn’t even issue maydays and survived the storm with very little damage. And while it’s much too small asample on which to base any firm conclusions on, the performance of the catamarans in the storm nonetheless had some influence on our deciding to build a cat for our next charterboat.By the way, most of the factual information presented above comes from Rescue In The Pacific, a well-written and well-documented account of the Queen’s Birthday Storm by Tony Farrington. The book is still in print.
__________________________________________________ ______
__________________
Tropic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2006, 19:34   #94
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Good on ya mate. I was hoping somone with better keyboard skills or smart enough to save text to this forum might put some of the story here.

The lady on "Heartlight " , sounds an "interesting" type

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2006, 19:47   #95
DtM
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of the Office
Posts: 908
Hi Lodesman,

On what do you base your comments about Fountaine Pajot construction?

No partricular barrow to push, I would just like to know.
__________________
DtM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2006, 19:50   #96
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,458
Images: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman

If given a 50-50 chance of outrunning bad weather in an unseaworthy (or unsuitable) boat for heavy weather conditions or to plow through in a boat that can take it, I'd take the latter any day.
Our current boat is a 40' steel Roberts - one that can certainly "take it" but equally certainly wouldn't outrun very much at all. I am building our next boat - a fast, light, but immensely strong catamaran. So I have made my choice.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2006, 21:11   #97
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Out there doin' it
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 2,638
Dave and Rick - thanks for the links. Very informative and entertaining. I particularly enjoyed the Bluesuit tales.

DtM - I admit I don't have first-hand knowledge of this, nor do I have a beef with FP; just read it in a few magazine articles and heard similar in conversations with other cat aficionados.

Kevin
__________________
Lodesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2006, 21:28   #98
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No longer post here
Boat: Catalac Catamaran
Posts: 2,462
Well, that's one way to sink a Catalac

Rick in Florida
__________________
Tropic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2006, 09:33   #99
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Out there doin' it
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 2,638
scuttled by ramming

I wonder what the insurance companies would have to say about this practice?

Kevin
__________________
Lodesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2006, 15:30   #100
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
I will admit that I don't know enough about Catamarans to give any advice about Storm tactics (and I would hesitate to give any "advice" for a monohull).......but the attitude that "I will be faster than the weather" is a bit different from what I am used to / displays a greater faith in Weather forecasts than I have, unless it's a coastal hop / day trip.

Not to say that folk won't manage this 999 times out of 1000, but whether a Monohull or a Multi I would want to be on a boat I knew could cope with the 1 in a 1000 event and also it was a Boat that I could cope with. But I appreciate that opinions and experiances will vary from my own.

Still, with a Catamaran I guess the advantage is that if someone does get in wrong and dismasted or flipped that Air Sea Rescue do have................plenty of room to land the chopper
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2006, 22:32   #101
Kai Nui
Guest

Posts: n/a
And for those of us with bright yellow bottom paint, be easily spotted
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2006, 22:42   #102
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
I have actually seen on some multis the underwing or underside of beams painted signal orange.

Not such a stupid idea

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2006, 22:48   #103
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,458
Images: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
I have actually seen on some multis the underwing or underside of beams painted signal orange.

Not such a stupid idea

Dave
Signal orange - non skid. I wont ever need it, but that's what I will be doing.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2006, 22:51   #104
Kai Nui
Guest

Posts: n/a
The ammas are not yet painted, but will also be "VIVID" yellow. The non skid areas on deck will also be bright yellow,
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4322.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	66.6 KB
ID:	549  
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 12:51   #105
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Out there doin' it
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 2,638
KN,

Are you doing the topsides yellow too? It's always amazed me that people pick white and blue (and sometimes, black) as colours for their boats. They sure look nice, but are bloody hard to be seen. I'm thinking of going red for the hull and yellow topside; might make me look like the coast guard, but my motto is "see and be seen".

Kevin
__________________

__________________
Lodesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
multihull

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Storm Tactics irwinsailor The Library 90 15-10-2009 05:24
Storm Preparations - What Do You Do? markpj23 Seamanship & Boat Handling 14 12-07-2006 15:38
Tropical Storm watch online RPC General Sailing Forum 0 13-08-2004 08:12
A Long Storm Seas0n GordMay Atlantic & the Caribbean 0 09-12-2003 12:24
Heavy-Weather Tactics: GordMay General Sailing Forum 25 28-10-2003 16:44



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:52.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.