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Old 14-11-2006, 17:40   #76
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Hi again Rick,
I think you'll find as demonstrated in the 98 Sydney-Hobart that the faster boats got out the front, or was it the back, of the worst of the weather, and had unpleasant but not destructive weather.

Unfortunatelly the slower boats got caught in it.

I've always had a bit of a downer on that race as the record's show that it's a **** time of year to go south, and I believe that maybe more skippers should pull out instead of punching south into worsening weather. That , in my opinion would be more seamanlike.

After all it's only a bloody yacht race. It's not worth breaking your boat or risking life for.

I've got the book on the 79 fastnet and i've been saving it to read when i'm living aboard again, but again, maybe faster boats could have got out of the worst of it.

Dave
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Old 14-11-2006, 18:21   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do

I still think that the best tactic for surviving bad weather is to try not to be in it, and that wil mean either a fast boat, or never leaving the lounge room.


Dave
The logic is difficult to argue with. By all means, avoid bad weather whenever possible.

What I take exception to is the argument (often promoted by catamaran enthusiasts) that the key is to "outrun" foul weather. Let's not fool ourselves here, the prospect is a crap shoot at best. Forecasts are wrong, storms can develop and move very quickly and their paths can be erratic.

If given a 50-50 chance of outrunning bad weather in an unseaworthy (or unsuitable) boat for heavy weather conditions or to plow through in a boat that can take it, I'd take the latter any day.
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Old 14-11-2006, 18:23   #78
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Anchor and prepare a claim.

Best,
Aaron N.
Come now boys, just a joke... You all poke fun at monohulls all the time. It's only fair that we get a go once in a while. After all, we don't have much to pick on with you all.

Best to you and yours,
Aaron N.
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Old 14-11-2006, 18:36   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman
If given a 50-50 chance of outrunning bad weather in an unseaworthy (or unsuitable) boat for heavy weather conditions or to plow through in a boat that can take it, I'd take the latter any day.
Scott - I am 100% in agreement. It seems to me that many of the current production multi's are all about "go light and go fast", which seemingly means they are less able to "take it" - am I wrong? A question for all - If you were going to ride out a hurricane in a cat - which cat would it be?

Kevin
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Old 14-11-2006, 18:42   #80
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At present my plan if a cyclone (hurricane) is heading our way is to partially fill the hulls with water to make sure the boat doesn't blow away. Mind you it's only 1/2 finished and sitting in my backyard at the moment......

I believe that if you have a fast boat you have much better than a 50/50 chance of avoiding really dangerous weather at sea though.
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Old 14-11-2006, 21:31   #81
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Lodesman's question is good though. Which cat in the real snot?
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Old 14-11-2006, 22:11   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodesman
Scott - I am 100% in agreement. It seems to me that many of the current production multi's are all about "go light and go fast", which seemingly means they are less able to "take it" - am I wrong? A question for all - If you were going to ride out a hurricane in a cat - which cat would it be?

Kevin
Kevin, i'd have to say that most production boats would not be considered light.

Chopper guns, woven rovings, polyester resin and gelcoat does not make a light boat in my opinion.

Light and go fast would be more a semi- production or an amateur build out of epoxy resins and stitched fabrics, minimal bog and two pack paint.

Just because a boat is production built is no gaurantee that is better made, quite the opposite in a lot of instances.

What makes a boat strong? Would a 4 x 2 hardwood beam be considered strong?

I was able to witness a "Drop Test" performed by a respected designer and Dept. of transport reps. in relation to getting a composite laminate approved for survey. I was there because I had made one of the test panels used .

As you are all probably aware solid fiberglass construction has for years been considered to be the way to go and the survey guys like it, but on this boat it would have actually made it dangerous due to the weight.

The test was at least 15 years ago, so my memory is not picture perfect, but I can remember my layup.

4X2 hard wood was the benchmark just to see what happened when a 15kg weight with approx 90mm diameter is dropped down a tube from 2 meters.

The weight shattered the hardwood.

Next was my sample of 10mm western red cedar with 400gsm double bias glass either side using epoxy resins.

The weight penetrated the top skin and left the other skin undamaged. Infact it took 2 more drops to compramise the other skin and another 2 to punch through.

This actually stood up better than some of the production builders panels that were foam csm, woven rovins csm combinations. The glass on these was around 4mm thick with around 3mm of gelcoat...... and heavy.

I honestly can't remember what the other panels were, but needless to say that the panel for the boat beeing built to survey got through with flying colours. It also was a Cedar core boat with a triaxial glass and epoxy layup, but more like 16mm and 1200gsm triaxial but not 100% sure.

Got to do a bit of research on what i'd ultimetly want to be on in the big one, but i'm thinking not production as they seem to be built to a price and a market, but at this stage i'd say a well built Simpson, Crowther , Tennant, Chamberlain or Schionning around the 40 + size



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Old 14-11-2006, 22:57   #83
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id go with a schionning chamberlain or an oram design as these are fast but very!! strong cats
sean
however i have not the extra 70000 to build one of these so a sub 70000 easy is my current game
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Old 14-11-2006, 23:14   #84
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Heres a pic of a Simpson and a Schionning I'd be lusting for.
Both very strong and fast designs with a moderate payload.

Neither of these boats are production builds and I know the first is a 15 year old amateur build and the shiny Schionning I suspect is as well.

Waterline length is everything
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Old 15-11-2006, 05:47   #85
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as for can these boats handle rough seas well it doesnt get much rougher than the seas around nz and tasmania and there are plenty of these fast light boats down there, i sailed from nz to aus on a 65 ft schooner via solomons papua new guinea and vanuatu, we got stuck in the middle of a cyclone but a grainger cat that was with us tracked its path put up more sail and got ahead of it
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Old 15-11-2006, 05:52   #86
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we still did 7 knots under bare poles, this was a boat that had an avge speed of 5-6knots 9 was great
sean
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Old 15-11-2006, 10:10   #87
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I will readily admit that the seas around Tas and NZ can get nasty (remember it well) however, until you get within 30-40 miles from the coast, the seas will be large but with a decent distance between waves (due to the depth). When you get the same in the north sea, the seas may not be as high, but they will be much much closer together and thus much steeper, and this is the really dangerous sea cause you accelerate so fast down the slope and then have a very steep angle to change from going down to going back up!
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Old 15-11-2006, 10:22   #88
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Buoy Data

We have that situation here as well. This data is real time from a buoy 25 miles off the coast here. (26 miles from me)

Rick in Florida

Click on the graph icon in the table below to see a time series plot of the last five days of that observation.
Wind Direction (WDIR):SSE ( 160 deg true )Wind Speed (WSPD):21.4 ktsWind Gust (GST):23.3 ktsWave Height (WVHT):4.9 ftDominant Wave Period (DPD):5 secAverage Period (APD):3.9 secAtmospheric Pressure (PRES):29.87 inPressure Tendency (PTDY):-0.01 in ( Steady )Air Temperature (ATMP):78.3 FWater Temperature (WTMP):80.2 F
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Old 15-11-2006, 10:23   #89
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oh, that is horrible. Sorry about the scrambled data. It looked much better when I was typing it.

The data is here.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=41009


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Old 15-11-2006, 14:50   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
Just because a boat is production built is no gaurantee that is better made, quite the opposite in a lot of instances.
Dave,

Agreed - that was actually congruent with my point; I feel there is a tendency with the production cats to build them quite lightly, then tout the miracle of cored composites. I understand Fountaine Pajots are particularly flimsy. I can't imagine any boat made currently is done with a chopper gun - do you know of any? I would like to know more about Simpson designs. Cheers.

Kevin
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